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Old 17-04-2016, 04:47   #106
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Re: Ran aground during sea trial..

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Originally Posted by Pete7 View Post
So that there is a contract formed between the buyer and the surveyor. If the surveyor is subsequently found to be wrong or at fault you can go after him through his liability insurance. If the vendor pays there is no contract.

Also the buyer is the future owner not the vendor, what does the vendor care, he just wants to sell the boat.

Pete
That's down to the survey wording then - a contract doesn't have to be based on who pays who.

Exactly! The seller should care if he wants to sell the boat. The buyer could quite rightly withdraw from the sale unless another survey is performed; would you gamble selling a boat on a 100EUR cost? What if this guy is the only person who's made an offer and the seller is desperate to sell the boat?

Really, this comes down to the relationship between the buyer and seller. A 50/50 split of costs is a good compromise.

n

To the OP - what's the update? Did you get another survey done?
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Old 17-04-2016, 07:47   #107
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Re: Ran aground during sea trial..

Question?has a surveyor actually paid for repairs on what he missed when inspecting the boat?


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Old 17-04-2016, 08:42   #108
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Re: Ran aground during sea trial..

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Originally Posted by ausnp84 View Post
What if this guy is the only person who's made an offer and the seller is desperate to sell the boat?
Don't know the seller, but I do know which boat this is ... and I know someone else who's very interested, should this sale fall through.

Either way, desperate seller or not ... $100 on a $25k boat should not be an issue methinks.

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has a surveyor actually paid for repairs on what he missed when inspecting the boat?
I don't know the US situation, but this topic is about a Dutch boat / survey. And here, if a surveyor screws up, it's pretty much your problem. You could try and take them to court, but that would take years and a lot of money, and the outcome ... very, very unsure. The fine print is hard to get around.

I suggested the surveyor Cranky used in this case. It's pretty much the one guy I'd consider hiring for a survey. He actually knows boats, is a former cruiser and comes very highly recommended. I've met him personally on a few occasions too. And for the Dutch people reading: not a HISWA guy
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Old 17-04-2016, 09:01   #109
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Re: Ran aground during sea trial..

Assuming the boat wasn't damaged before the bump stop you experienced in sand -- then if you don't think the Contessa can take that sort of event, then you should buy that boat. I wouldn't fret over it.

If you had run into the sand bar after your bought the boat, would you be so nervous? I hope not.

(I assuming this was nothing more than a simple temporary grounding. No grinding, the boat stayed pretty vertical, the rudder wasn't affected, etc.)

When was the bottom last painted? Do you plan to pull it at the end of the season? If you plan to paint the boat at the end of your summer season, then I'd not let this be an issue.

If the seller offers to pull the boat and touch-up the bottom paint, he'd be very accommodating seller.
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Old 17-04-2016, 10:36   #110
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Re: Ran aground during sea trial..

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Originally Posted by SG View Post
Assuming the boat wasn't damaged before the bump stop you experienced in sand -- then if you don't think the Contessa can take that sort of event, then you should buy that boat. I wouldn't fret over it.

If you had run into the sand bar after your bought the boat, would you be so nervous? I hope not.

(I assuming this was nothing more than a simple temporary grounding. No grinding, the boat stayed pretty vertical, the rudder wasn't affected, etc.)
This is what the OP actually said:

"....the boat hit something or the ground itself while the seller was at the helm (lucky for me it wasn't me driving!) the boat lurched violently forward and came to a stop (I assume the seller immediately pulled the engine into neutral).. It was violent enough for us to lose our balance on the deck."

The boat hit "something," not necessarily sand.

It stopped "violently" not gradually sliding up on a gradually sloping sand bar or in mud.

The OP's wife is "freaking" about this incident.

The cost to haul and inspect is very minimal.

The OP should insist of having it hauled and inspected before the sale goes through, and if the seller is hesitant to pay for it, then he should just pay for it himself. If the seller refuses to allow him to have it inspected, even at his own expense, he should walk away. This is NOT a commentary on the ruggedness of the boat, it's to buy himself and his wife peace of mind.

If it turns out that there is damage that requires repair, then he should renegotiate the sale price with the seller, or the seller should pay for the repairs before the sale is completed.

Yes, I've been aground in every boat I've owned, and more times than I care to recall so it's not something I'd normally "freak out" over if it was a gentle stop. But when the word "violently" is associated to running aground, I'd want my boat hauled and inspected ASAP.

About 20 years ago, I had my luckiest encounter with a rock that still makes my heart beat a little fast but also makes me smile. I was in my Pilot 35, just getting underway, sailing out of Southwest Harbor at about 5 knots pinching up a little on starboard tack to (barely) stay on the correct side of the red buoy that marked the end of a shallow ledge that jutted out from a nearby island. Suddenly I became aware that out of the corner of my left eye I could see big jagged granite rocks underwater and simultaneous to that I heard what sounded like a jacket being unzipped. I immediately tacked to starboard away from the rocks and after my heart stopped pounding, had a nice sail. Later that fall, when I had my boat hauled, I noticed a line had been scored the whole length of the left side of my full keel about a foot up from the bottom of it. The line was deep enough to penetrate the several layers of hard bottom paint but not even all the way through the gel coat. Yes, I'd rather by lucky than good!!! Lessons learned from that encounter were to not cut it so close to buoys marking hard things, when the water is shallow and there are 10' plus tides, the location of the buoy can vary a fair amount depending on the tide state and current, and that you might be on the correct side of a buoy but if you are sailing at a 45 degree angle the obstruction it marks and the tide is low, you might "find" that obstruction anyway.
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Old 17-04-2016, 13:39   #111
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Re: Ran aground during sea trial..

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Originally Posted by jtsailjt View Post

About 20 years ago, I had my luckiest encounter with a rock that still makes my heart beat a little fast but also makes me smile.
Oh man, that reminded me of a close call I had with some rocks where it was supposed to be deep! My heart beats too, but I don't really smile! I agree with your post too. If it's a violent stop, you have got to check it. If the owner was at the helm, he should pay for it.
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Old 17-04-2016, 14:15   #112
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Re: Ran aground during sea trial..

From both intentional and unintentional groundings in mud and sand over 30 years, observable structural GRP modifications are extremely unlikely to the point of a non issue in this case. As the prospective buyer is new to this vessel and the waters the vessel has seen service this observed grounding kicked off several memories of secondary effects of mud groundings:
1). Condition/exposure of the rudder stock in the grounding, 2). Actions of the skipper in the event, did he apply auxiliary power in forward or reverse to agitate the keel disturbed bottom to put strain on the raw water strainer/impeller/heat exchanger, 3). Agitated sediment foul any transducers? The sediment issues from groundings raised by this observed event could have been SOP procedures for this locale.
In our experiences this showed up in clogged strainers/heat exchangers which led to overheating and engine failure. Again, probability in this case sounds remote, but less so, than a GRP issue. If efforts and money are expended, a couple of hours on a mechanical survey seems more judicious than a visit to the slings.

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Old 17-04-2016, 14:23   #113
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Re: Ran aground during sea trial..

Why do you feel that it more than just a simple grounding in sand? This is the first boat purchaser. If one is motoring out and hits an rock or engine block or whatever -- as opposed to sand or mud. The description of the contact and event would likely be a lot different.

f you hit a "HARD" object and stopped the boat and the helms person had to back-off the throttle -- you'd have a BANG, a SHUDDER, a SLAM, or any other adjectives that are likely.

The knowledgeable surveyor who was (presumably) working for the purchaser wouldn't be so indifferent to the situation, etc., etc.

I've "touch" granite once a few miles from SW Harbor, it's a lot different than sand :^))). It too left a small crease in our lead keel which was filled the next haul-out and painted over. That was a very MINOR "bump" -- but was apparent to all, didn't stop the boat, etc. It's a lot sharper feel and SOUND.

It's the difference between a slap on the cheek and punch in the nose :^)))
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