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Old 14-04-2016, 11:41   #76
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Re: Ran aground during sea trial..

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Originally Posted by boeing1 View Post
also agree probably that no damage was done, however you do not know, and sounds like you will sleep better if you have it checked, I think you and the seller can agree on some fair way to resolve the issue. just curious does the boat have a depth sounder alarm,
Well if it does it ain't working.. that's for sure ;-)

or that would speak more for something big under the water and not simply hitting the bottom.. hmm... good point.. in the confusion nobody bother to look at the depth meter.
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Old 14-04-2016, 11:46   #77
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Re: Ran aground during sea trial..

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I think the buyer has to pick up the cost for this. After all hopefully it is going to be your boat. If I was the seller and you wanted a survey I would invite you to phone the boat yard and arrange it, at your cost. It is fairly normal during a purchase if you want the yacht surveyed you pay.
Sure... but hasn't the OP already had the boat surveyed once? Then it was run aground. Why should the OP / buyer pay to have the boat hauled and surveyed again because the owner's run it aground?

The boat is most likely fine BUT a.) this is now the 6th grounding, b.) no-one knows what's been hit (rock? sand?) and the kicker c.) your insurance will be void if you ever make a claim. I work in insurance and if you made a claim with me for a keel related issue and I saw the survey said "boat run aground violently" and it wasn't checked at the time, that's on your tab.

For peace of mind, just haul and get it checked. The seller should at least pay 50% though.

n
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Old 14-04-2016, 11:48   #78
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Re: Ran aground during sea trial..

Hello,
Hit something is different than running aground. Did you feel the boat stop. Did you step forward to keep your balance. I would check the chart to see what type of bottom is there. I would also send a driver down. If he sees or feels nothing I would be okay with it. If the driver report something other, I would haul the boat or walk.
Good luck
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Old 14-04-2016, 12:01   #79
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Re: Ran aground during sea trial..

i won't pretend to be a boat expert but i think everyone is missing the point. it is about peace of mind. pull the boat, leave it in the sling and asked the seller to split the cost. he wants it sold you want it bought. you don't want to look for another boat he doesn't want to look for a new buyer. everyone wins with no blame or worry.

good luck, thats a sweet boat, enjoy
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Old 14-04-2016, 12:02   #80
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Re: Ran aground during sea trial..

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Originally Posted by crankysailor View Post
Hi everyone, looking for other perspectives in this issue. So after finally getting to the last stage in the purchase of our first boot, we went out (the seller, a surveyor and myself) on a sea trial. We were just motoring happily out of the harbour and the boat hit something or the ground itself while the seller was at the helm (lucky for me it wasn't me driving!) the boat lurched violently forward and came to a stop (I assume the seller immediately pulled the engine into neutral).. It was violent enough for us to lose our balance on the deck.

So after that the surveyor looked in the bilge etc and nothing seems to be broken.. He tried to assuede my fears pointing out that these things happen and it is not the end of the world.. The boat (a contessa 32) is of a solid construction where the keel is one with the hull, etc etc.. Yes there might be some scratches down there but this is not a reason to run away scared looking for cover..

That might all be the case but still .. As a non expert and new sailor buying his first boat, the idea of running aground is of something one doesn't take lightly. The surveyor said the only way to know is of course to pull the boat again out of the water (that part was already done :-( ) .. This would be of course a pain in ze arsch and he seems to think if it was him he'd just check it out the next time in a few months when the boat comes off the water and if need be patch up what might have gotten scratched and move on with his life..

What do you folks think? Would it be unreasonable to pull off of the deal cause of this event unless the seller did something to make sure al is kosher down there? Everything else has already been settled and the seller is on the ball so I am not looking to take advantage of the situation but to be fair while at the same time protecting my interests. So I am thinking the options are:

1. Run away fast looking for cover. The boat ran aground.. Game over

2. Demand that the seller pays for pulling the boat out of the water once more and that he makes any repairs that might be necessary. If he refuses, walk away.

3. Offer the seller to still buy the boat but knock off something off the price to account for a possible future fix..

4 Meh.. It really is not the end of the world kid. Don't be a pussy. If this would have happened yesterday when you were not around, you would be nonethewiser. Next time you pull it off, clean it up, let it dry, patch it up and done.

5. Something else?

Opine away! Thx!


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Put on a mask and fins, maybe a wet suit if in cold water, and check out the damage. Probably not much, but you never know. Look for keel separation or cracks from the boat bottom. If you don't run aground, you're not going to the most fun areas!
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Old 14-04-2016, 12:05   #81
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Re: Ran aground during sea trial..

With out a doubt I would check the boat (haul it out) I would request the owner (acting Captain) cover the cost of the haul out.

those on this site that say "trust your surveyor" are leading you astray... even surveyors make mistakes...

If owner doesn't agree to a haul-out don't be intimidated to walk away...
it is your right, the boat didn't pass your inspection criteria.

The extra cost should be born by the Captain/owner, not you...
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Old 14-04-2016, 12:08   #82
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Re: Ran aground during sea trial..

With an encapsulated keel, running into something is usually not a big thing. Even if you hit something hard enough to bust the glass, it's relatively easy to relaminate the damaged glass and repaint. It it was sand or the typical bottom that you ran into, scraped paint is probably the only damage. Assume you are buying the boat because of its reputation as a solid boat so wouldn't consider the grounding a deal ending occurrence. To ease your concern, see if the owner will pay for a haul out or at least split the cost with you. Good opportunity to slap another coat of bottom paint on the boat.

As far as running aground, I consider it a free haul out. Good opportunity to inspect the bottom and even do a little maintenance or bottom paint. Of course, running into very hard objects like rocks is a totally different opportunity like collect on the insurance and get a new boat. Fortunately never had to confront that last grounding.
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Old 14-04-2016, 12:09   #83
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Re: Ran aground during sea trial..

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Originally Posted by j Squared View Post
those on this site that say "trust your surveyor" are leading you astray... even surveyors make mistakes...
Amen brother! My qualified steel boat surveyor said Calypso would be a 3 month project..... 5 years later, the project was done.

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Old 14-04-2016, 12:31   #84
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Re: Ran aground during sea trial..

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Originally Posted by crankysailor View Post
Hi everyone, looking for other perspectives in this issue. So after finally getting to the last stage in the purchase of our first boot, we went out (the seller, a surveyor and myself) on a sea trial. We were just motoring happily out of the harbour and the boat hit something or the ground itself while the seller was at the helm (lucky for me it wasn't me driving!) the boat lurched violently forward and came to a stop (I assume the seller immediately pulled the engine into neutral).. It was violent enough for us to lose our balance on the deck.
The issue here is the abrupt stop "violent enough to lose balance", suggests rock or very hard packed mud. Did it stick or bounce off and was it easy to reverse back?

A sudden stop will cause the back edge of the keel to move upwards slightly. This shock loading will compress the gelcoat at the top after edge of the keel.

There will be stress fracture crazing of gel at that location and possibly a crack in the gelcoat.

It is essential to haul out and remove 20 cm of antifouling at back and front of keel to see if there is damage to the gel in that location.
If cracks or crazing are found it would imply a price reduction to cover repair.
It probably grounded before and the inspection may reveal other grounding damage.

Good luck in your purchasing adventures.
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Old 14-04-2016, 12:37   #85
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Re: Ran aground during sea trial..

Cranky, you've enough advice to fill your brains for 10 boat groundings. Pretty evident what is the prudent thing to do, wouldn't you say?

So, I want to say something that should add more momentum to what you are already correct in doing...listen to your wife's freaking out very carefully.

She is your companion and the giver of many things like cooking, e ticket rides in the bedroom, and countless other pleasant interactions in a marriage. Can you imagine the carnage (psychologically) that will ensue if you don't take every prudent step possible to make sure the boat is whole and sound? You know the phrase, "hell hath no fury like a woman scorned"....you catch my drift? Money is one thing...and a furious woman is a whole 'nother level of pain. If you don't take the prudent steps and it blows up in your face later...remember me...you were warned. The Apache Indians used to kill with knife by a thousand cuts. Have you ever heard of a woman's tongue cutting like a knife? Smile.

You sook advice on a forum of people that know pretty much know all there is about boats. Get your wife on board with you on what will make her feel comfortable that this is still a great boat. If you feel that slinging the boat for a couple of hours while she is inspected...and the MRS. agrees that it is an acceptable compromise...then you have your answer. If she says walk away from the boat no matter what, try to get a compromise with her. If she digs in her heels and says no compromise...it ain't worth the fight with her...move on. Contessa's are wonderful sea boats. Has the MRS ever been on a sailboat in a real seaway? I am just wondering

I don't want your wife to look at you and see this dog's face as her image of her Skipper/ Lover/ Husband/ idiot
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Old 14-04-2016, 13:17   #86
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Re: Ran aground during sea trial..

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Money is one thing...and a furious woman is a whole 'nother level of pain.
My wife would LOVE that quote! Better listen to Alan!
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Old 14-04-2016, 13:41   #87
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Re: Ran aground during sea trial..

My wife would never have peace after such an event until the boat was hauled out and inspected by she, me and a trusted pro.
Happy wife, happy life. Worth the $,
Don't risk her peace of mind, could spoil the whole boat ownership thing for her then you.
James
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Old 14-04-2016, 14:33   #88
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Re: Ran aground during sea trial..

Good boats (like this one) is very sturdy and boats a designed to some degree to take a grounding. Nothing stops sales like a model sinking from minor groundings. Most boats will take a noticeable nose plunge on a bottom grounding. This is good. It absorbs much of the forward inertia and usually helps lift the keel a bit giving it more 'bottom slide' time absorbing more of the forward inertia. With the overall buoyancy of your displacement the sand/ keel encounter didn't lift ?? tons, but something much less. All that said, not unreasonable for a prospective new owner to be sure no damage was done. It was seller's responsibility running hard aground and his price to pay. Alternatively, as with houses, you two can agree on a dollar amount that the seller places in escrow in the event that real damage was done/ discovered at end of season haulout. Good luck.


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Old 14-04-2016, 15:58   #89
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Re: Ran aground during sea trial..

Running aground at 3 kts can cause damage. The seller is liable and was driving the boat at the time. Who would stop a sale over a couple hundred bucks? Short haul, inspect and if all is well, done deal. If not, negotiate repairs or walk away. Very simple.


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Old 14-04-2016, 16:07   #90
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Re: Ran aground during sea trial..

I think cranky sailor has made a good decision. So I will only comment, many people have experienced various types of groundings in the pre-liner-built boats, and with little negative effect, except in the case of hard groundings at speed.

Recently, I was in the wrong place, and struck a rock going about 3 knots (already in reverse because I could see the bottom was coming up fast on the forward looking sonar) with a full stop. It sounded horrible, and I felt really mortified.

Damage, a dent in the keel, and some bottom paint off, and that's it. Except to my ego.

However, I have also driven at speed up on a sandbank, and that time, as well, there was no damage, although a bit of effort to get off. If you sail where there are shifting sands, it's pretty likely you'll have groundings. The sands wander around and fill up what used to be a clear passage, and therefore, following you GPS track can still get you stuck.

So, I tend to think that in this case, the boat will be hauled, re-examined, and found to be quite all right.

If cranky sailor puts a depth sounder with an alarm on the boat, it will sound at a pre-set depth, whatever the safety zone is that he wants to establish between his keel and the bottom.

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