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Old 14-04-2016, 08:45   #61
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Re: Ran aground during sea trial..

If it is your first boat you are very likely to do it yourself within the next month or two..
I wouldn't sweat it going so slow on sand.
if it gives you peace of mind then do it - i can assure you it won't be the last time you spend money on your boat for a random unexpected reason...
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Old 14-04-2016, 08:46   #62
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Re: Ran aground during sea trial..

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Originally Posted by crankysailor View Post
i.e. it is unreasonable to make demands from someone else about checking his boat for example.. or is a grounding serious enough. I sort of got my answer which is.. "it depends"
I think the buyer has to pick up the cost for this. After all hopefully it is going to be your boat. If I was the seller and you wanted a survey I would invite you to phone the boat yard and arrange it, at your cost. It is fairly normal during a purchase if you want the yacht surveyed you pay.

Be interesting to see what you do if you buy her and then run aground a fortnight later. It actually took me 6 years before we bumped a sand bank at 5 knots. A quick check of the inside then made a mental note to look at the keels the following winter. Actually about 8 months later I couldn't see any sign other than perhaps a few less barnacles on one keel
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Old 14-04-2016, 08:51   #63
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Re: Ran aground during sea trial..

So an update to keep feeding the drama .. I exchanged some emails with the seller.. you gotta love the dutch (and I say that in a nice way )

Quote:
in the fifteen years I have been sailing these waters I have run aground 5 times already and there has never been any issues afterwards...


Well at least he is honest.. and I respect that in a man then I have no reason not to believe him when he shrugs it off.

However there is no need to take the risk or uncertainty upon my shoulders.. the surveyor did also say it should be no big deal but also wrote on the final report it was a violent grounding with a full stop.. and that even though he doesn't expect any structural damage there might be external damage to the GRP (no biggie, etc) so I am willing to pay just to be sure any damage there is minor and then my neurotic paranoid inner child is happy

Thanks for the input everyone.. I will let you all know how the saga continues and if we do manage to close the deal and someday finally sail away on our own boat... that seems still so far away!

Cheers!
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Old 14-04-2016, 09:17   #64
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Re: Ran aground during sea trial..

Have it hauled for a quick inspection while on the slings. At seller's expense. Don't take a chance. Not your fault. Be safe!
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Old 14-04-2016, 09:18   #65
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Re: Ran aground during sea trial..

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Originally Posted by ausnp84 View Post
Have the boat re-hauled again (at the seller's expense) just to check. Sure, it might be nothing - but what if he's hit something solid and caused a crack? You don't want that on your dime...

n
Agree, have the boat hauled at the seller's expense and have your surveyor inspect it, unless he tells you not to worry, in which case find a new competent surveyor.

Most people will look at the front of the keel for damage and find very little. The place to look for damage is at the aft end of the keel. When running hard aground the keel acts a huge lever that forces the aft keel root up into the boat. This can cause the hull to delaminate aft of the keel and can cause structural damage to the floor timbers and break the tabbing that holds the timbers and other furniture in place.

Once the damage has been appropriately assessed, then the seller's insurance company can pay for the repair.

If the boat just plowed into some mud, there probably isn't much serious damage, but at speed into something hard, there is a good chance something broke.
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Old 14-04-2016, 09:34   #66
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Re: Ran aground during sea trial..

Just hauled a 36' boat for survey last week. There were small , hairline cracks in the tabbing of the keel inside. No damage outside was visible and no evidence of repair. The yard boss's take was that the boat had a grounding in sand or mud and as the keel was stuck the motion of the hull from waves had flexed the hull away from the keel. $25,000 estimate to repair.
This isn't your situation but if it were me the deal would be off unless the owner pulled the boat and had it inspected. If there is damage, where will you be after the sale? What could it cost to sling a Contessa for an hour? $200/$300? At least get the seller to split the cost as he is the one who ran it aground.
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Old 14-04-2016, 09:45   #67
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Re: Ran aground during sea trial..

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Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
it's hard to say. A short stop with a bang? Pull it quick, let it sit in the slings, and look for any crack/smile fore and aft of the keel.
Just a bump, bump, but abrupt stop? My guess is it's fine. I have hit hard in a medium heavy laid up hull at 5.5 knots a couple times... with nothing but a scrape (molded keel/ part of the hull.) I know a production hull that hit a rock at about 5-5.5 and suffered $20k damage.

+1 Just what I was going to post.
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Old 14-04-2016, 10:04   #68
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Re: Ran aground during sea trial..

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Originally Posted by crankysailor View Post
So an update to keep feeding the drama .. I exchanged some emails with the seller.. you gotta love the dutch (and I say that in a nice way )





Well at least he is honest.. and I respect that in a man then I have no reason not to believe him when he shrugs it off.

However there is no need to take the risk or uncertainty upon my shoulders.. the surveyor did also say it should be no big deal but also wrote on the final report it was a violent grounding with a full stop.. and that even though he doesn't expect any structural damage there might be external damage to the GRP (no biggie, etc) so I am willing to pay just to be sure any damage there is minor and then my neurotic paranoid inner child is happy

Thanks for the input everyone.. I will let you all know how the saga continues and if we do manage to close the deal and someday finally sail away on our own boat... that seems still so far away!

Cheers!
You described it as a "violent" grounding, the owner says he has grounded her 5 times? Can you imagine the forces put to that keel? Folks here are saying it was sand? Not you, you don't know! And besides that it does not matter what it was, a hard grounding even without apparent visual damage has put the keel/boat under a great deal of stress, what did they say about the Titanic? You say it's a hassle to be there for a haul out, I say it's a bigger hassle to lose a boat out from under you and possible loss of life, but that's just me. Keep this in mind my friend, more friendships have been lost on business deals gone bad than just about anything. Also I don't care what anyone thinks of this surveyor, after a grounding, telling you all is fine after merely looking in the bilge is irresponsible and unprofessional, it indicates he works for the seller, not the buyer. Why hire a surveyor if all he's going to do is take an educated guess? Owner grounded her during sea trial, it get another haul out for inspection, that's a no brainer, but your life, your family's live's and your boat, do as you wish. Life insurance paid up on everyone? I'm glad to see your doing the right/smart thing and having her hauled!!!
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Old 14-04-2016, 10:12   #69
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Re: Ran aground during sea trial..

Here in Canada we have some very large differences in tide hight between high and low tides. and thus use tide grids for minor work such as checking on, or changing propellers.

So My question is do you have tide grids in Holland?

Perhaps the real issue is all about showing his wife that the boat is not damaged ?
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Old 14-04-2016, 10:24   #70
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Re: Ran aground during sea trial..

Well like I said.. if it was my boat I would do it.. so why not do it when it is the boat I want to buy?. So it will be done. That was my final reasoning. But on the other hand I mean.. there will be a risk no matter what. The only thing that is different here is that I know that the boat ran aground cause I was there. If I walk away from this boat (and yes.. it might come to that or not... we'll see what happens after we haul her out again) well.. I will buy another used boat cause I can't afford a new one (by a very long shot) .. so the next one could just as well had a grounding or more just as bad or worse.. and I would do another inspection a surveyor might say it all looks ok. And then because of hair fractures or what not.. we all die a horrible death in the middle of the ocean...

I am not playing that down .. really.. it scares the bejeezus out of me. I am just saying... whatever I do there will be a risk involved cause I am buying a used boat so one just doesn't know who she has been sleeping with and what she has been put through all these years. You can survey it all you want but unless the surveyor has x ray vision there is only so much he/she can do. So.. either I close my eyes and swallow the fact that there will be a risk or I will never become a world sailor.. actually I would never be able to leave the port if one follows that line of thought...

So.. yes.. the boat will be taken out and I expect to see some damage to the GRP which will get fixed.. but beyond that.. what else can I do other than either hope it will be ok or just give up sailing altogether (until the time when I can afford a new 150K € boat which will probably be somewhere around the end of my next life).. and what happens if I ground that new boat.. do I sell it to the next sucker and buy a new one again?.. hmm.. see what I am getting at?.

Just as a cavalier attitude is irresponsable, an overzealous approach is simply not possible unless one is Bill Gates... don't you guys think?.

Cheers!
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Old 14-04-2016, 10:26   #71
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Re: Ran aground during sea trial..

The costs are very low, about 100 euro or so. So not something to worry about too much in my personal opinion, esp not when spending around $25k on a boat.

I know that location, I think every boat with something of a keel has run aground there at least once - if they're honest. Nearby, there's the Biesbosch -- even more fun there

With Lizzy Belle, I avoid it like the plague (way too much draft, and avoiding the sandbanks will usually mean my mast ends up in the trees, also no fun. Aks me how I know) but we go there a couple of times each summer with boats with a more "Biesbosch friendly" draft. And still, we'll kiss the bottom there kind of regularly ...

Anyway -- I think the only real issue here is that the OP won't be in the Netherlands long enough to have her hauled and see for himself? Not sure tho, cos the boat can stay in the slings so it won't take all that long. Could have done it already
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Old 14-04-2016, 10:33   #72
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Re: Ran aground during sea trial..

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I know that location, I think every boat with something of a keel has run aground there at least once - if they're honest. Nearby, there's the Biesbosch -- even more fun there

With Lizzy Belle, I avoid it like the plague (way too much draft, and avoiding the sandbanks will usually mean my mast ends up in the trees, also no fun) but we go there a couple of times each summer with boats with a more "Biesbosch friendly" draft. And still, we'll kiss the bottom there kind of regularly ...
BTW the draft on the Contessa is deeper than that of an Ohlson 29 .. so oh boy!
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Old 14-04-2016, 10:39   #73
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Re: Ran aground during sea trial..

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Originally Posted by crankysailor View Post
BTW the draft on the Contessa is deeper than that of an Ohlson 29 .. so oh boy!
Haha, yup, 10 cm or so, I think?
But that keel isn't just held up by a few bolts, mine is. Yikes

I sometimes mutter I can't take LB anywhere - meaning, I have to follow the standing mast route (which automagically takes care of draft), but then again ... she was built for the sea, not some inland puddle with plenty of overhanging trees and shallow bits with sandbanks

The Contessa 32 is a great boat! Had it high on my list as well before I bought LB ... Just never found one for my tiny budget.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crankysailor View Post
... you gotta love the dutch (and I say that in a nice way )
We're a loveable bunch - tho I've been told many, many times we're rude. Which we're not (intentionally), just very direct and possibly a little blunt
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Old 14-04-2016, 11:15   #74
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Re: Ran aground during sea trial..

also agree probably that no damage was done, however you do not know, and sounds like you will sleep better if you have it checked, I think you and the seller can agree on some fair way to resolve the issue. just curious does the boat have a depth sounder alarm,
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Old 14-04-2016, 11:36   #75
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Re: Ran aground during sea trial..

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Haha, yup, 10 cm or so, I think?
But that keel isn't just held up by a few bolts, mine is. Yikes

I sometimes mutter I can't take LB anywhere - meaning, I have to follow the standing mast route (which automagically takes care of draft), but then again ... she was built for the sea, not some inland puddle with plenty of overhanging trees and shallow bits with sandbanks

The Contessa 32 is a great boat! Had it high on my list as well before I bought LB ... Just never found one for my tiny budget.



We're a loveable bunch - tho I've been told many, many times we're rude. Which we're not (intentionally), just very direct and possibly a little blunt
And maybe frugal we used to say the Dutch invented copper wire by two of them pulling on a pennie, lol. Canadians have since WW2 a special relationship with the Dutch.
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