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Old 28-04-2013, 23:01   #31
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Re: Questions for Younger Cruisers

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Originally Posted by Andy73 View Post
Retirement...
Kid's education...
Kid's Weddings...
Pay of house...
Talk about anchor around your neck..
Life's short mate and at the end of it you're dead.

Anyhow.. another idea lobbed into the pot:
Sail to Taiwan, Korea or Japan and teach english.
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Old 28-04-2013, 23:17   #32
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Re: Questions for Younger Cruisers

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Talk about anchor around your neck..
Life's short mate and at the end of it you're dead.
Agree wholeheartedly and working hard to slip the anchors which aren't valid... I guess the question I have for you, or any of the other young middle agers facing this choice is this...

Most (not all) of us received some assistance/support from our parents to get where we are. I know I worked hard but my parents helped out allot as well. How do you plan to answer your kids when they reach the age of needing some financial assistance for school, etc on the main land and your life style afloat mandates a refusal? I am not criticizing this choice, it is yours to make, just curious of your ideas about it.

I know I feel an obligation to pay it forward with the help I received to get where I am today and wanting to help my kids to get a leg up on the world.
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Old 28-04-2013, 23:59   #33
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Re: Questions for Younger Cruisers

It's funny you ask about parents because I almost replied early but I didn't want to sit there and chime in.

Neither my wife or I came from a family of money. I joined the Navy at 17 and went to college on an NROTC scholarship. My wife got grants and loans. For our wedding, we spent a total of $6K and had a spectacular weekend on Catalina Island in Avalon.

You're asking so I'll say it, and I understand if you disagree, but I think by "helping" kids along you really aren't. I gained a tremendous amount of discipline and drive by having to do everything myself. That's paid dividends for me, and the same for my wife.

I don't think it's practical to pay for college; you're saving for an amount you can't possibly predict with any form of accuracy. What's enough? $20K? $80K? $200K? What if they want to go to medical school?

All of the personal financial advice I've heard says the best thing you can do for your children is to not be a drain on them. Have your health and don't become broke.
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Old 29-04-2013, 01:07   #34
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Re: Questions for Younger Cruisers

Yeah, I hear you... No specific answer on my part, and your points are all valid.

Just trying to find a middle ground between the silver spoon concept and completely leaving to fend for themselves.

Thanks for your thoughts though.

Andy
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Old 29-04-2013, 03:10   #35
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Re: Questions for Younger Cruisers

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Originally Posted by Capt Rottnest View Post
Talk about anchor around your neck..
Life's short mate and at the end of it you're dead.
and a long time dead ......but if the financial anchor thing is the price "you" have to pay for what you want / makes you happy then so be it.

Quote:
Anyhow.. another idea lobbed into the pot:
Sail to Taiwan, Korea or Japan and teach english.
Not great money in that (for most) - sorta like the PADI diving instructer model, aimed at those who are looking for the experiance more than the money - with the training of folks as teachers a key part ($$$) of the TEFL business model.....I have actually tried to teach a few folks english (from varying starting points!), and not as easy as it seems - simply speaking English not enuf!

The good news is that involves high turnover (not a job most will do for life), so a decent chance of getting foot in the door. Being a native English speaking Westerner (ideally white) and look smart (and sober!) often good enough.

Many years back I did think about TEFL, but couldn't be arsed . Funnily enough that half an idea I am mulling over for the future, to get me back down to SEA (somewhere!) - at least for a few months a year. Not really about the money and more about getting into a life locally that does not revolve solely around beer . And maybe even find a new Mrs DOJ .........might be a boat involved, probably not .
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Old 29-04-2013, 05:00   #36
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Re: Questions for Younger Cruisers

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Originally Posted by Andy73 View Post
Agree wholeheartedly and working hard to slip the anchors which aren't valid... I guess the question I have for you, or any of the other young middle agers facing this choice is this...

Most (not all) of us received some assistance/support from our parents to get where we are. I know I worked hard but my parents helped out allot as well. How do you plan to answer your kids when they reach the age of needing some financial assistance for school, etc on the main land and your life style afloat mandates a refusal? I am not criticizing this choice, it is yours to make, just curious of your ideas about it.

I know I feel an obligation to pay it forward with the help I received to get where I am today and wanting to help my kids to get a leg up on the world.
I was more referring to the "retirement" and "pay house off" as an anchor around your neck. Sell the house and retire on the boat, there's your dream come true.

As for the kids, might be cultural difference at work, in Aust there are student loans for university education (college), they dont need to pay it back until after graduation and earn above a certain amount, and its interest free. So saving up for kids education isnt something Aussies have to do.
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Old 29-04-2013, 06:33   #37
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Re: Questions for Younger Cruisers

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but if the financial anchor thing is the price "you" have to pay for what you want / makes you happy then so be it.
Personally I think a big part of the problem is that when it comes to cruising a large number of people think you need the 45-50 foot boat packed full of interconnected chart plotters, touch screens, multiple flat screen TVs with satellite, a 15 cf freezer, AC, electric flush, etc. to be happy. A cruising boat isn't going to be the same as your McMansion with the 3 car garage.

For us, the choice would be to go soon in a 31 foot boat or go in another 20 years in a larger boat. Admittedly, the dream was to initially retire on a large (44 Antares catamaran) sailboat at the normal retirement age. The more we were exposed to this life style and the more we thought about what we really wanted, the concept changed. We didn't want to retire to a boat; we wanted to live a different life style than most that was on a boat. Living a more minimalist (I hesitate to say this because we are nowhere close to minimalists compared to some) life style, you can enjoy your life more, IMO.

Jesse
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Old 29-04-2013, 09:02   #38
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Re: Questions for Younger Cruisers

Being able to live aboard a sailboat is completely about your attitude. I went to school from age 7 to age 32, and I didn't like it at all. Then I worked for 22 years in a stressful job, making gobs of money but without much free time, time with my four boys or the ability to travel. At the peak, I owned a brand new half million dollar airplane, nine cars including two race cars, an expensive home and owned my $950,000 office building with $600,000 of equity. Then I found out my trophy wife had a spending addiction and had spent 1.3 million dollars in a three month period directly out of my business and personal accounts and had even stolen my father's identity and taken $33,000 from him on credit cards. Since I was married to her it wasn't considered embezzling and I had to file Chapter 11 to reorganize and protect my assets. When it was over, due to the economy and real estate crash I was left essentially without any assets at all. My office building is still for sale after foreclosure.

Obviously, this was a life changing experience. Fortunately my boys schooling was already mostly paid for, but the youngest had to work a little to finish up while I sorted things out. Instead of continuing to work I sold all of my "stuff" which took two years. I found I was more happy not working and that not having to manage an avalanche of possessions was very liberating, not to mention being able to go fishing or diving whenever I wanted. Yes, I could go back to my profession and make a bunch of money again, but at 56 I am content to drive an old car, live on a paid for 34 foot sailboat and work occasionally when I feel like it, doing work that requires a little manual dexterity but almost no education.

Having lived in the 0.1% ($100,000 per month) and the 99% ($500 per month) I prefer the latter. The secret to life IMO (and the secret to being able to cruise at any age or financial level) is not continually striving for more money and security but to find what you can live without and develop a survivalist mentality. In the final analysis, no one can take away your creativity- and your spirit, family and health are your most important assets.
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Old 29-04-2013, 09:43   #39
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Re: Questions for Younger Cruisers

Umm, We did it on a less than $1000 per month average. Plus a few boat additions we wanted to do. And now that we are in Mexico, things are looking more affordable.

We worked a few shitty jobs each, and chose to save before spend. We still have an apartment back home, like most of the other young cruisers we met out here. All the young cruisers who have their own boat have a few things in common: they worked really hard before leaving, they are not trust fund kids*, and they have a budget and when that dries up they go back to work.

*the trust fund kids are obvious, they cruise around with their parents, obviously live a life with minimal responsibility which makes running their own boat a bit difficult, and they are horrible conversationalists.

I will tell you how much it will cost you; every dollar you have. If you save up $200 000 it will cost you that much, if you have $20 000 you can have just as long and entertaining an experience. You will still most likely spend it all.

It is all about going for it, and adapting to the conditions and situations you face along the way.
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Old 29-04-2013, 10:41   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azul
Being able to live aboard a sailboat is completely about your attitude. I went to school from age 7 to age 32, and I didn't like it at all. Then I worked for 22 years in a stressful job, making gobs of money but without much free time, time with my four boys or the ability to travel. At the peak, I owned a brand new half million dollar airplane, nine cars including two race cars, an expensive home and owned my $950,000 office building with $600,000 of equity. Then I found out my trophy wife had a spending addiction and had spent 1.3 million dollars in a three month period directly out of my business and personal accounts and had even stolen my father's identity and taken $33,000 from him on credit cards. Since I was married to her it wasn't considered embezzling and I had to file Chapter 11 to reorganize and protect my assets. When it was over, due to the economy and real estate crash I was left essentially without any assets at all. My office building is still for sale after foreclosure.

Obviously, this was a life changing experience. Fortunately my boys schooling was already mostly paid for, but the youngest had to work a little to finish up while I sorted things out. Instead of continuing to work I sold all of my "stuff" which took two years. I found I was more happy not working and that not having to manage an avalanche of possessions was very liberating, not to mention being able to go fishing or diving whenever I wanted. Yes, I could go back to my profession and make a bunch of money again, but at 56 I am content to drive an old car, live on a paid for 34 foot sailboat and work occasionally when I feel like it, doing work that requires a little manual dexterity but almost no education.

Having lived in the 0.1% ($100,000 per month) and the 99% ($500 per month) I prefer the latter. The secret to life IMO (and the secret to being able to cruise at any age or financial level) is not continually striving for more money and security but to find what you can live without and develop a survivalist mentality. In the final analysis, no one can take away your creativity- and your spirit, family and health are your most important assets.
Best thing i've read in ages, got knocked down a few notches myself due to a disease that made it impossible to work for a long time. Now i'm just gonna go for what matters. Family, experiences and diving. Lots and lots of diving.
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Old 29-04-2013, 11:12   #41
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Re: Questions for Younger Cruisers

My wife and I are 36, our kids 9 and 7. We are about to take off for the third time; this Friday is, in fact, my last day of work (!).

Leaving is the hardest part. It's even harder now that we are in our thirties, we are so much more entangled in landlubbery life. We feel a whole lot more Responsible and caught up in far off plans for our future. This is the first time we are leaving in this context of me taking my Career Seriously, or having a Spreadsheet for Retirement. Sailing, of course, looks absolutely ridiculous on any spreadsheet.

If we had not done this before, and did not know for sure that we like it, I'm not sure we'd be able do this for the first time now. It's hard, it feels like jumping off of a cliff. Tacking my life, to head offshore, now feels more like coming about in a square rigger. In our twenties, making big changes involved little more than telling our parents and pushing on the tiller.

But the pull to go back is like... gravity. My orbit is no longer centered around this landlubbery life at hand. Having a wider range of experiences, I sometimes feel ... too mortal to spend my entire time in this landlubber mode. It's been absolutely wonderful to me, but I know there is also another way of life that I love.

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One thing I'd say towards my fellow 30-ish year olds is that I spend a lot of time with my family now. I used to leave for work before they were up and by the time I'd get home the kids were exhausted and my wife the same.
^^^ This ^^^ -- missing the kids, and each other, is the root of what is pushing my wife and I to go Now, rather than later. This thought, coupled with a feeling that everything is temporary, is what makes us value the present moments too much to let them continue to pass in a blur. This is probably an odd thought to most people, but my special needs daughter has also taught me that we are not really in control of our lives. There is a limit to plans, and knowing that makes it easy to trade the fake certainty and ability to spin intricate pipe dreams that landlubbery offers for the uncertainty, letting go, and trusting ourselves to make up our own happy situation that sailing yields.

I also work in software. My biggest concern is maintaining my personal network over years of absense. For me, skills have always been easy to pick up -- the hard part is making, or being invited into, an ideal situation again. For me, the difference in fun between cofounding a startup and working as a line programmer in a large firm is so distinct, that when we come back, if I cannot make or find the former situation, I would feel a bit of regret for jumping off of the ladder. But... no matter what the trade off turns out to be, I know the next years of sailing will be worth it.
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Old 29-04-2013, 11:16   #42
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Re: Questions for Younger Cruisers

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Originally Posted by Azul View Post
Being able to live aboard a sailboat is completely about your attitude. I went to school from age 7 to age 32, and I didn't like it at all. Then I worked for 22 years in a stressful job, making gobs of money but without much free time, time with my four boys or the ability to travel. At the peak, I owned a brand new half million dollar airplane, nine cars including two race cars, an expensive home and owned my $950,000 office building with $600,000 of equity. Then I found out my trophy wife had a spending addiction and had spent 1.3 million dollars in a three month period directly out of my business and personal accounts and had even stolen my father's identity and taken $33,000 from him on credit cards. Since I was married to her it wasn't considered embezzling and I had to file Chapter 11 to reorganize and protect my assets. When it was over, due to the economy and real estate crash I was left essentially without any assets at all. My office building is still for sale after foreclosure.

Obviously, this was a life changing experience. Fortunately my boys schooling was already mostly paid for, but the youngest had to work a little to finish up while I sorted things out. Instead of continuing to work I sold all of my "stuff" which took two years. I found I was more happy not working and that not having to manage an avalanche of possessions was very liberating, not to mention being able to go fishing or diving whenever I wanted. Yes, I could go back to my profession and make a bunch of money again, but at 56 I am content to drive an old car, live on a paid for 34 foot sailboat and work occasionally when I feel like it, doing work that requires a little manual dexterity but almost no education.

Having lived in the 0.1% ($100,000 per month) and the 99% ($500 per month) I prefer the latter. The secret to life IMO (and the secret to being able to cruise at any age or financial level) is not continually striving for more money and security but to find what you can live without and develop a survivalist mentality. In the final analysis, no one can take away your creativity- and your spirit, family and health are your most important assets.
Heck of a story.
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Old 29-04-2013, 19:05   #43
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Re: Questions for Younger Cruisers

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if I cannot make or find the former situation, I would feel a bit of regret for jumping off of the ladder. But... no matter what the trade off turns out to be, I know the next years of sailing will be worth it.
This is what many are talking about.
I would think a bloke like yourself, would readily set up his own business from the boat. Me thinks there's a heap of programmers like this on CF..
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Old 29-05-2013, 10:13   #44
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Re: Questions for Younger Cruisers

my humble opinion is any single american with an annual income of ~$50K could (key word) retire in ~ 5-10 years if they really wanted to...
if the income is $100k+....you could realistically get there in 2-3 years.

how?
1st step is visit amazon or your local library and pick up early retirement extreme by jacob l fisker...and then supplement with rolf potts' vagabonding and the classic how i found freedom in an unfree world to solidify things.
the millionaire fastlane is another decent resource if going the start-grow-then-sale-your-business route.


fwiw, i'm also mid 30s...and preparing to move my little mini-retirement to the water.
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Old 29-05-2013, 11:50   #45
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Re: Questions for Younger Cruisers

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You could ask the same question all those people who own houses in their 30s and 40s. If you think either house or a boat, it becomes simpler. Plus think of all the money you can be saving by not paying interest on that mortgage for years...

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Retirement savings is a huge one for us. We're in our 30s and have a decent start on retirement savings. Many people in the "go now"group have no such savings or they become part of the kitty, it seems. I struggle with that and so does my wife.


So far it seems like we need to save for retirement first, them for adventures.
Long-term retirement savings is also part of our plan. This is a good point that doesn't always come up in "go now" discussions.

We also know people our age who went early and worked later, sometimes more than once, or worked while cruising. So it is a choice to consider and can be approached in in many different combinations.

My husband & I sold the house 5 yrs ago to pay off the boat. We left debt-free at 44 & 39 yrs, respectively, and are now cruising full time indefinitely.

I often say that we saved for 2 "retirements": one for the first ~20-25 years until legal retirement age and the second with 401k/IRAs for later.
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