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Old 01-05-2010, 02:00   #16
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If I missed it then let me just say sorry but the answer to the question about dry rot is that saltwater does not cause dry rot. Freshwater is the wood boat's enemy so make certain rain doesn't leak into the bilge without a bit of saltwater there to keep the rot away.
Former wood boat owner.
reards,
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Old 06-05-2010, 09:35   #17
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Yep, salting the bilge of a woodenboat, a forgotten practice.
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Old 12-05-2010, 16:31   #18
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Update: surveyor photos from yesterday

Here's a look at pics snapped by my surveyor yesterday in his preliminary once over. Do those moisture readings mean what I think they do? Do I have a problem with the rudder? If so, how big a problem is it?











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Old 12-05-2010, 16:52   #19
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What was the surveyors take on all this. What type of construction is the rudder. It is not unusual to get water into a rudder especially around the pintle area, this is a place of tremendous loads. It would be usfull to know what the total survey shows before making further judgement.
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Old 12-05-2010, 18:17   #20
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The survey will be in about 2 weeks. The surveyor was on his way to the yard and just did an initial walk around shooting pics and taking readings on the hull. I haven't heard from him yet as to what it means. Given his emailing of vita, price list, and contract (indemnifying himself) I may not get much info until I either sign the contract or go down for the survey and sea trial in person. I was just wondering if what those readings mean and what remediation is indicated. Maybe the photos are not enough to go on.
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Old 12-05-2010, 18:35   #21
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It all makes sense now regarding the crip fitting. For the PL95 connectors I assume I just twist the copper strand, insert into the fitting, solder and trim the excess?
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Old 18-05-2010, 08:21   #22
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If it's a solid or glued up wooden rudder and it's been in saltwater, there's no issue at all as the wood would "take up" when in the water. A reading of 28% is too wet for rot, especially in saltwater. If it's a cored glass rudder, it depends on the core material. If solid wood, again, no issues.
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Old 18-05-2010, 08:46   #23
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Thanks, Charlie. The surveyor didn't seem to think it was problem. Heading down to do the survey early next week, so we shall see.
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Old 28-05-2010, 21:01   #24
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Found it, that 1 in 1000!

I bought the boat. It surveyed excellent in all important respects. Tryst-Umiak was built by a Canadian Elec. Engineer to voyage to Alaska and is overbuilt in every way. The hull is 2" thick, the rig is robust and surveyed strong. Everything is clean, there is no smell, and the engine purrrrrs like a sleeping jaguar and the alignment is pristine. The sails are stiff, the ground tackle is good with a chain/rope rode of 760' with a lofrans tigres electric windlass with a new motor. Spares for most things. The surveyor said it was one of the strongest built boats he'd ever seen. He thinks the markets comps are over twice what I paid. This boat could cross an ocean tomorrow, tho' I'm not sure I'm as ready.

This is that one in a thousand everyone seems to be looking for that is strong, ready and half of market prices.

I'm sure my questions are just getting started. I'm confident I can master sailing her, but the intricacies of knowing and maintaining the systems seems slightly daunting. I've made a condition of sale that the PO will spend a few days cruising her with me in a few months and going over all systems and making me a book of check lists. I already know a few mods I will make, but for now, it is enough. It is well.

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Old 28-05-2010, 21:42   #25
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Congratulations SE!!!

We'll be seeing you out on the water someday...you will be easy to spot...She is a looker.
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Old 28-05-2010, 23:40   #26
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I can tell you're little disappointed but you will get over it Congratulations - it looks like a great boat!
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Old 29-05-2010, 06:08   #27
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One of the best days in an boat owners life, fair winds.
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Old 30-05-2010, 21:02   #28
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More info and a bit of history

mostly to gather my own thoughts, and update my generous CF advisors and maybe let someone thinking of doing similar things to look over my shoulder.

So off I drove to Tucson the first leg, meeting my architect/occasional charter partner and and friend of 35 years, who’d agreed to come along.

The boat is on the hard at the Guaymas yard, not the gringo Marina Seco in San Carlos, the Gringo boat village, mostly sport fishers in the marina with a big hotel, mostly empty (the hotel, not the marina). The Guaymas yard has all sorts of sailboats, a few nice cats down to seriously decayed hulks, in various stages of storage ($124 mo), live aboards on the hard, and rebuilding projects. Unlike the San Carlos dry dock you can do whatever you want in Guaymas, do the work yourself, live aboard or let it rot and bleed you to death for rent.



The survey took from 9am-3pm, with the owner, the Surveyor and his two young Mexican assistants, and an anglo retiree sailor, adding to his 201k no doubt, rig inspector who went up the mast checking each component and connection up to the top, where he spent 30 minutes or so, about 45 min total. I have some photos coming from my friend’s camera that we sent up with the rigger and am chomping at the bit for the disk-in-the-mail and some emailed advance candy. He said the rig was strong, recommending only two things, wrap the spreader tips w/figure 8 (they are secured so I assume for genny protection?) when I got around to it, and change the forestay pin (2.75” x .75” stainless. He said it could be perfectly fine, but with so much rust on it, he’d change it out if it was his. Owner said he’s sure he has another pin for it. A good report.

The main surveyor had two Mexican young men checking the bilge and cubby holes with a fiber optic viewer. He and they had already been over the hull and chainplates previously. No corrosion, no crazing. Everything was reported as good, and often the phrase ‘overbuilt’ was used. There had been one spot of delamination fixed aft of the keel to starboard. The owner’s pics showed like-new wood under a 3’ x 2’ area where the glass had been removed. The repair is undetectable now. I had been under the impression it had been a rot fix and was relieved to know it was just delam. The bilge was dry, as the owner said “it would be and had always been.” Of course, it has been sitting on the hard for 18 mo in a desert. But I buy his story and think he’s a good guy.

There is about 800# worth of lead ballast foamed in the bilge, and loose in bags distributed forward under the Vberth and a few aft, I forget exactly where, that can be shifted if I were to get a new dinghy or anchor of change the balance in some way and wanted to retrim. It has two 44# bruce anchors on the double rollers, with a total of 840’ rode, 180 3/8” chain. The current owner, who has cruised her for 10 years, before grounding her in Guaymas 18 mo ago, from Vancouver to Panama and back to Mexico, uses an unusual anchor set for storms. He inlines both bruce’s, one 30’ behind the other on the one rode. I'm a bit hazy on the rig. I think he uses his 30' of spare chain. He claims it won’t foul like a 45* double set does sometimes and they reset together quickly. Hmmm. He sets his snubber about a dozen feet in front of the rollers and double ties it to the cleat on the windless and the forward ¾-forward cleat, tug boat sized. They’re that way all ‘round the deck, lots of ‘em.

CBurger, after comparing, it does look like a modified Atkin design. It compares closely with the hull and ballast of of his Gundred, a foot shorter than Tryst-Umiak, but with the ballast, similar numbers. Although I don’t think Atkin ever used a bulb, like she has, with 6500# of lead and a total lead keel of 12,500#. The overview of the hulls is similar as well, tho’ not the layout.













The engine room, right behind a basic galley, is a trip. Entry/exit to the aft berth are 4’ high, a rebuke to my chubby butt, is through the engine room. On the passage aft, the electrical panel is on the left, the engine to the right, two fuel filters immediate right, on the bulkhead, with one large racor and a small one for the 12 gal. emergency tank one can switch to if gunk shows up in the big filter. Clean it out and switch back to the main tanks. Across the engine room is storage for lines and life jackets, harnesses, etc. I saw how to bleed the injectors and loosen the drip on shaft bearing. Aft cabin has a 1.5 berth, with toilet covered with raise up box. A bronze step allow exit through the hatch to the back of cockpit, and that is where you would steer with the emergency tiller, attaching to the rudder post just aft of the bunk, with your foot.

Tankage is good. Two 60gal fiberglass fuel tanks under the sole in the galley and two 60 gal fiberglass water tanks just ahead of those, over the bilge, low in the boat. Carl’s sail calculator gives her capsize ratio of 1.48. Oddly, the aft head has a 12 gal holding tank and the forward head/shower/vanity does not. 6 gal hot water heater, “enough for two of us to shower”, says he.

4 batteries, no dedicated start batt. There are only two, he says he will install the other two. He says the 4 have always been enough, through often use of the engine, I imagine. The 102 hp Isuzu is a monster, sweet running (IR analysis of it running showed it all heated up evenly and ran at 180*, which is what owner said before hand) He seemed genuinely surprised it didn't start immediately after sitting 18 mo, as it always had. So he manually bled the injectors and off she went. It idles sweetly at 600 rpm and will power the boat a couple of knots at idle. He uses 1250 rpm for cruise which yields 5.5 kts @ .75 gal per hr. He claimed to have only used max power once in reverse when he hit a sand bar, which he said raised the stern into the air. I’m thinking solar on either or both of the wheel house roof or davits. Auto pilot was disconnect “because it used too many amps, brain is gone, it was an old wagner. Bummer, no AP.

I have confidence in the boat but there are issues. I would really like AP for singlehanding then solar and radar. The galley has a two burner Origo alcohol stove, which is not my preference. There a small propane stove that bolts on top of the Origo that has a small tank attached to the aft rail. There is an AC small front load refridgerator. A top loading ice box at least would be nice. The two big stainless sinks are great tho’. Only 4 berths, the settee, the v berth, and 1 or two in love in the aft bunk. Maybe not so bad. I’m 6’2” and there’s enough headroom in the salon, but the roof of the wheel house is about 6’. The framing is down to maybe 5’11”. I see lots of head bumps or stooping. My architect buddy says no big deal to cut the supports and raise it 5”. Not sure how that would look.

My head is full and racing. It’s like someone here said in an earlier thread, maybe Capt. Gracias, the moment I shook hands on the deal, things sped up. Suddenly, I switched from skeptical inspector, to a list maker, way behind on a thousand things to do.

Enough for tonight. I know most of you folks are shy about expressing opinions and discussing options. But feel free to speak up.

speakeasy
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Old 30-05-2010, 23:30   #29
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Wagner

I'm sure you're anxious to spend more money so here's a source for Wagner heads:
Wagner Autopilot Parts & Accessories via Marine-Plus.Com* Merchant
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Old 31-05-2010, 03:48   #30
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Congrats on the boat purchase!

Am intrigued in how the gas / propane cooker set up fits on top of the origo - any pics?
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