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Old 09-12-2011, 01:39   #31
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Re: Questions About Buying an ETAP

This isn't an ETAP either... nothing to worry about those steel boats...



trying to get this to work...hmmm

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Old 09-12-2011, 02:13   #32
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Re: Questions About Buying an ETAP

Serena

Racing is different but my crusing with autohelm 90%+ of the sailing is watchkeeping.
The hard work is mostly at the ends Leaving and arrival.
The test is can you can safley rig sails and dock singlehanded.
On passage perfect 24 hour watch keeping is impossible on your own. you have to balance the risk rest reward cycle vs having a mate.
Bigger means comfort and storage.
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Old 09-12-2011, 08:42   #33
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Re: Questions About Buying an ETAP

Hi Serena:
OUr 41' is in San Diego. Long way from Nevada City. Hope to re position her to SF Bay next year. As far as 2 months off shore it seems to me that 22' is pretty tight. I don't have an Etap 22 but I do have a Capri 22 and it would be hard to get everything stowed. I also have "The Italian Job" a Wauquiez 33 and to me that would be a great size for single handing. I would try the Etap 32 out because for one person it may be perfect. As I remember it was pretty comfortable. Just crowded with My wife, a 8 year old, a ten year old and myself on the boat. For one person it might be just right.
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Old 09-12-2011, 18:25   #34
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Re: Questions About Buying an ETAP

If you're thinking about offshore, particularly in a boat that size you need to consider what will cause flooding. If its just a hose come loose you will find it quick enough. Heavy seas causing it - we'll just great. Now I'm in a swamped and rolling boat. It will float but probably break my neck. Sometimes it is better to step UP to a life raft.

I'm not belittling it. As I said i think etaps are fine boats and if the unsinkable thing makes you feel better than its worth it to you. Personally I wouldn't get all that hung up on it.

John
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Old 09-12-2011, 18:31   #35
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Re: Questions About Buying an ETAP

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Originally Posted by Penceler View Post
If you're thinking about offshore, particularly in a boat that size you need to consider what will cause flooding. If its just a hose come loose you will find it quick enough. Heavy seas causing it - we'll just great. Now I'm in a swamped and rolling boat. It will float but probably break my neck. Sometimes it is better to step UP to a life raft.

I'm not belittling it. As I said i think etaps are fine boats and if the unsinkable thing makes you feel better than its worth it to you. Personally I wouldn't get all that hung up on it.

John
No1 survival rule. Best to stay on the vessel till its no longer floating then get into liferaft. Doubt anyone with liferaft experience would agree with you.
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Old 09-12-2011, 18:36   #36
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Re: Questions About Buying an ETAP

I guess you missed the stepping UP part.
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Old 09-12-2011, 19:18   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penceler
I guess you missed the stepping UP part.
But penceler, the Etap really doesn't sink so stepping up into life raft is not relevant. Also, why would one break the neck in a holed floating Etap? Do you mean that it would roll more when holed compared to dry inside?

No, the only reason to abandon the Etap with a lufe raft is for uncontrollable fire aboard, propane explosion etc. For the rest you stay put aboard the Etap.

It's just the thing with Etap; it's unsinkable, a proven design and it can even be sailed while holed. There is no reason to ignore this feature for off shore passaging.

cheers,
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Old 09-12-2011, 19:25   #38
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Re: Questions About Buying an ETAP

If you say so....

I have never been offshore in a flooded etap so who knows. At the same time, I cringe at the thought of what life would be like on a flooded etap 22 offshore in any condition that would have flooded it in the first place. Is Ty's really what you want to be tethered to?

So much of this depends on what your definition of offshore is.

I will stand by my original comment - they are fine medium quality boats and if unsinkable "floats your boat" then go for it.
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Old 09-12-2011, 19:55   #39
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Re: Questions About Buying an ETAP

I think Etap's are good boats as well.

But what were the conditions of the test referred to earlier? It is one thing to sail a boat in calm seas when it is full of water but quite another in 30 or 40 knot winds and 10 foot seas, while the water below is methodically destroying the bulkheads etc.
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Old 09-12-2011, 20:13   #40
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Oh indeed, it might not be coctail happy hour aboard the flooded Etap, but I can assure you that it will be better than on either a sinking hull, a flipped hull or a life raft. 40-50 knot winds on an ocean are not nice in any small sailboat, so why would it be nice in one that is holed and making water? It isn't about comfort but about chances of survival.

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Old 11-12-2011, 14:30   #41
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Re: Questions About Buying an ETAP

I purchased an Etap 22s this year right from the builder (actually it is an Etap 21 and "s" stands for "sport" because it has a bowsprit which adds one foot more).The manufacturer obviously faces difficulties and was 6 months late with delivery. Since I have it I've sailed it 20 times or so doing coastal crusing and all I can say it is a well thought fast little coastal cruisiing boat that can be trailed very easily. Actually I towed it from Belgium (almost from the North sea shore) to the Black sea coast which is appr. 2700 km. and did not have any problems. Apart from the "unsinkability" feature, which I hope will never have the occasion to prove, it has a twin 0.7 meters (2" 3") keel which does not deteriorate performance while beating (there was a test a few years ago made by professional racers with two boats - one with a standard keel 4'4"" and one with the twin (shallow) keel and until the end they were not able find out which is which). It has also double rudders which is a good feature, especially when you sail it heeled. I use an old 6hp Yamaha 2 stroke outboard which fits well between the rudders and is very economical and has more power than I actually need. It is 7/8 fractional rig with a deckstepped mast well ahead and the main does the biggest work. The Genoa is 110% rollerfurling. With the tiller extension you can steer it forwards of the mainsheet traveller mounted on the flloor in the middle of the cockpit (easily removed when not in use) just behing the sprayhood, which is very comfortable especially in these winter days (therefore a dodger is a must and the one they provide is very wellthought and made and easily folds down). The biggest inconvenience is the lack of anchor locker at the bow but you can mount a bow roller on the bowsprit and fix an anchor there. Otherwise the anchor is meant to be kept in one of the cockpit lockers. The cockpit is very comfortable and roomy. Below deck is OK for the size of the boat - you can even stand in the companionway. There is a marine toilet. I have slept several times using the V-shaped bunk with a big hatch that provides good ventilation. I would say a perfect weekend boat being also seaworthy. You can even sail it offshore (I have not) if you skip off comfortability.
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Old 12-12-2011, 01:40   #42
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Re: Questions About Buying an ETAP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Penceler View Post
If you're thinking about offshore, particularly in a boat that size you need to consider what will cause flooding. If its just a hose come loose you will find it quick enough. Heavy seas causing it - we'll just great. Now I'm in a swamped and rolling boat. It will float but probably break my neck. Sometimes it is better to step UP to a life raft.

I'm not belittling it. As I said i think etaps are fine boats and if the unsinkable thing makes you feel better than its worth it to you. Personally I wouldn't get all that hung up on it.

John
There are other causes for a boat to flood than just loose hoses and waves. Recently a boat sank off West Australia after hitting something in the water. In quite benign weather conditions.

Surely, everything else being equal, in that circumstance it would be preferable to be in a boat hat would stay afloat, rather than one that wouldn't?
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Old 12-12-2011, 03:15   #43
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Re: Questions About Buying an ETAP

Olianta, very nice and informative first post - thank you and welcome aboard
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Old 12-12-2011, 04:34   #44
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Re: Questions About Buying an ETAP

Hi everyone and thank you all so much for this fabulous information

I'm sorry I didn't respond sooner - I wanted to reply to the posts individually but then they grew too fast! Olianta, I'm stoked by your great experience with your 21/22 - do you tend to single-handed or take crew?

I've been looking for 22/24/26' ETAPs in AU to hopefully take one out to get a feel for them, but they seem rarer than hens' teeth. It's a little discouraging, but patience is a virtue (or so I'm told!). So I will just keep looking & bide my time.

In pro/conning the 22 vs the 26' for offshoreing the 26 is obvy the smarter choice - more stable, more storage so it is the one I'm going to aim for instead of the 22 *sniff* Also I've asked ETAP for info on the sea trials/test conditions to determine unsinkability & if they send me good info, I'll post it here (with their permission of course). If they don't send me enough info then I'll just have to write to Mythbusters & ask the lads to put an ETAP to the test in open water...

Thanx again for this wide & varied feedback. I really appreciate it.

Serena
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Old 12-12-2011, 05:32   #45
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Re: Questions About Buying an ETAP

Appreciate the benefits of unsinkability but without wishing to rain on anyone's parade, if you have a simple hole (or a failed fitting) then all will likely be good........but if you get hit by something bigger / faster odds are will simply slice her in two. and all the unsinkability in the world won't stop the crew paddling in the water (if any survive the collision).......

......I only mention that because IMO a collision with another vessel far more likely than hitting something unexpected in the water (or attached to the shore ), the latter simply relies on own navigational skills and is therefore largely preventable. Something in the water is simply pot luck - the former includes others and therefore cannot be relied upon. Failure of hull fittings 99.99% within the Owner's reach to prevent - prevention being better than cure

Anyway, everything is doable but if budget is an issue and ETAP's are priced up as desirable and rare - rather than discounted as unknown and strange .......then I wouldn't get too hung up on the unsinkable stuff.....unless you are planning on when, not if
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