Prospective purchasers lament

[delmarrey]

What chu mean? You don't like ride'n Western??????



Sorry, bout get'n off sub ject. Jus could't resist......................._/)

[Boracay]

I guess what I am worrying about is that the market seems very high at the moment, and we all have to sell sooner or later.
It is also a lot easier to get spousal approval if the price is right.
I did cost the materials for a 45' boat and it came to around $150,000 excluding labour.
So an old sound boat should sit somewhere between $100,000 and $200,000 depending on condition, location, level of equipment and the desire of the owner to sell?

[rakuqueen]

Have you checked Good Old Boat classified ads? They ususally have some very interesting boats.
Just a thought.

Jane

[Boracay]

I should have added history and documentation as factors in evaluating the value of a boat.
Hal Roths book looks interesting so I will order it from Amazon.
The Good Old Boat classifieds look good as well, but they are a long way from me.
It would be helpful to have a part of this site for boat purchasers links.

[GordMay]

Some links for the prospective boat buyer:

Boat for Sale's ValuGuide is a computer-generated averaging of asking prices for comparable boats that have been advertised in Boat for Sale (Canada) within the last 3 years.
http://www.boatforsale.org/value/

N.A.D.A. boat appraisals (USA)
http://www.boats.com/nada/nada.jsp

Search Yacht Trader Online
http://www.yachttraderonline.com/search.php

Search Boat Trader Online
http://www.boattraderonline.com/index.html

Links to Some Sailboat Manufacturers with Resources on the Net
http://www.apparent-wind.com/sailboa...facturers.html

Offshore and Coastal Cruising Sailboats
http://cruisenews.net/db/boattypes.php#Offshore

HTH
Gord May

[wannasail]

I have been thinking about Chris' opening post here for a while and can add from a sellers perspective. Our boat has everything Chris has asked for in a boat for sale, even the original Master Carpenter Certificate from Taiwan is in the records file. We are priced about $25K less then the comparables on Yachtworld, and yet our broker brought us an offer $6K less then asking and did the saleman pressure trip of "this is the best youre going to get".
When I said now way, now he's thinking I'm difficult. We bought the wrong boat (for us) to far from home, lessons learned but selling this beauty is sad, difficult and frustrated by the whole process of involving a salesman! Good luck Chris.
PS, Take a look
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...g_id=1912&url=

[Boracay]

I had a look at wannasail's yacht on the net. It is smaller than I would like and in much better condition than I need. Looks good though.
Australia is a long way from the US of A but trying to look at your boat from a buyers perspective the first point that came to mind was that I could not work out where your boat is located.
As I have mentioned before looking at boats is very time consuming, so locating exactly where a boat is is my first consideration.
The other thing that it is nice to do as a buyer is to look at the boat without the broker, just to get a first impression, and for that a buyer needs to have some idea of which marina it is in.
I think that there would be a lot more interest in the listing if it mentioned the excellent documentation, ownership history and probably maintainance record that your boat probably has.
If there has been a below the waterline gel coat upgrade that should also be mentioned, along with the engine hours.
You may have to go with the broker on whether to mention the engine type as some boat persons have strong prejudices against various engines. I think the engine HP should be mentioned unless it is way too big or small.
If the engine compartment is clean and neat a photo of it may assist, as would a photo of a clean bilge.
Finally as your price is on the bottom end of asking prices for Tayana 37's a reason why you are selling so low would reasure nervous, travel weary buyers.
I hope that I have been helpful and not too negative.

[wannasail]

Godd feedback Chris, thanks.

[delmarrey]

I don't get it? First you say:

Boats that I have looked at have been massivly overpriced. Most of the boats for sale in this part of the world have been for sale for a long time, for some of them it looks like years.

Then you say:

Finally as your price is on the bottom end of asking prices for Tayana 37's a reason why you are selling so low would reasure nervous, travel weary buyers.

So, which part of the world are you speaking of and what do you expect to pay?????????????????????

[Alan Wheeler]

I think Chris must be looking for that million dollar boat with the 100K price tag.
Chris, if you are tire kicking, maybe the brokers see that. It doesn't take long for the experianced pro's in the market to see someone that isn't really wholehartedly looking. If you are looking for a real bargain, then you have to take the prospective crap that comes with it. That's why boats DO cost what they do. There is a lot of money tied up in them, with a lot of extra's gained with age. Infact, if you looked at the cost of a yacht, you can break it down into three basic price brackets. The hull cost ruffly 10-15% of the overall cost. The fitout of that is about 50% of the cost. The rigging, sail wardrobe and deck gear and is another 50%. Yes that is 110-115%, because a boat will always go into over runs.

[Boracay]

I make no apology for wanting boats realistically priced to sell in a reasonable time and enough information to enable me to assess the value of the boat before I commit to what can be an expensive and time consuming inspection process.
As I look at the market at the moment there are lots of unrealistically priced boats which do not sell, and a small number of well priced boats that do sell.
I am taking the time to look and to get a good idea of market value and conditions.
The cash price of the cruising boats that I have looked at is the largest financial transaction that I have ever contemplated and I would rather not buy a boat than get it wrong.
Most brokers that I have seen and spoken to know that the boat that they are presenting is over priced. They have taken the listing at the owner's valuation knowing that the price will have to be lowered to meet the market before the boat will sell. They are professional enough to show it and to get my feedback on the condition and value of the boat, which they can then take back to the owner. The next looker is then presented with a more realistically priced boat.
I know my valuations are low but there are no prizes for buying an overpriced boat.
I get the impression that there are very few buyers at the moment, with the number not likely to increase.
Even tyre kickers eventually buy cars.

[Jeff H]

I want to comment on Wannasail's comment in his post,

"We are priced about $25K less then the comparables on Yachtworld, and yet our broker brought us an offer $6K less then asking and did the saleman pressure trip of "this is the best youre going to get".

I think that your broker is probably correct in what he is advsing you. Most early 1980's era Tayana 37 deals that I have been around have had sales prices in the $50K range. The early 1980's era Tayana 37's were known to be especially prone to having extremely bad blister problem, teak decks that are near the near of their lifespan and sub-decks that may have areas with serious rot problems that may not be obvious during a survey, iron water tanks that are at the end of their useful lifespan, running and standing rigging in need of replacement, a mix of knock off deckhardware that is near the end of its lifespan and difficult to replace, etc. Given the other normal age related issues of any boat this age, and the mediocre sailing abilities of the Tayana 37's, they are seen as project boats and that tends to result in very low sales prices somewhere in the $50K range. That does not keep other owners from asking very inflated asking prices and keeping their boats on the market for years at a time.

Beyond that most buyers reasonably expect that the asking price of a boat is inflated 10% to 15% over what the seller will take and so your asking price is probably about right, and the offer sounds like a very good one.

As odd as this sounds you might need to inflate your price slightly and then make it crystally clear that you have addressed some of the long term problems that these boats are known to have.

Jeff

[Wahoo Sails]

Chris,
My income level simply isn't enough to allow me to purchase a yacht and go cruising ... though that is exactly what we have done .. and will be doing. How so? Well, first of all, I must say luck has played a big part, we have found and purchased a boat that was massivley underpriced ... odd set of circumstances caused the previous owner to sell it so cheaply. Secondly ... the boat is not a "turn key" yacht ... all of the brightwork needs to be refinished, the decks will be repainted etc. Even if the circumstances had been different, the cosmetics of this boat would have kept the price below what it should have been. Were I to hire a professional to make the cosmetic repairs ... I still wouldn't have been able to afford this situation, as things are, I will make all the necessary repairs myself ... wich makes the entire situation affordable.
If what you want, and are finding, are boats outside of your budget ... perhaps you need to consider a boat that is less than perfect to begin with. The real trick is in knowing what is repairable (and at what cost) and what is not. In many ways, this can be advantageous ... for example, when finished, the non-skid areas of our boat will now be a light blue, with light blue canvas to match ... this will be our choice, not something that we simply have to "live with" because the previous owner had decided on a color scheme.
I realize that not everyone is capable of making their own repairs, and many do not have the time to ... but it is one way of getting a quality boat for less than top dollar.

L S/V Love Nest
Bob & lynn

[Alan Wheeler]

Hey Bob, you stole my story.
We chose Ferrocement for several reasons.
1: I did a lot of home work on all the in's and out's of it, and in the end, was very happy and confident with the material.
2: I did a lot of homework on the actual boat we brought and it's builder.
3: The design had to meet all my requirements of a cruising life.
4: It was affordable when all other materials put the similar size and types of vessels well beyond our price range. It' was a third the cost of anything else.
5: She was beautifully fitted out, just tired on the outside, and so like Bob, a coat of paint and a bit of timber here and there and we end up with a nice looking vessel, with alterations that suit us, not what some designer/builder had in mind.
The negatives are, if we spent a fortune on the thing and made it look a million bucks, we still have a ferrocement and it is seen in the eye's of the market as always being the price they seem to be. I could never expect anything else. The positive of that is, if I ever sell, I won't loose as much either. Maybe even, it might hold it's value or even with wishfull thinking, it might increase in value as many others see the benifits and strengths and longevity of these materials and that most all of the problem built boats of the 70's/80's no longer exist.

[Boracay]

I started out looking for a project boat but I found that the ones that I have been looking at are either massivly overpriced or sell very quickly. They are much in demand in todays market. One of the probable reasons that project boats sell so well is that they have to be brought early in the planning process.
Currently I am looking more at a boat that is already in good condition. It makes better economic sense for me to go to work to earn extra cash than to spend the energy and time to overhaul an old boat.
The other advantage in buying a better boat is it removes the time constraints on my purchase. I now have an extra two years to shop for a boat.