pros/cons of getting ASA 103/104 vs just doing it?

[Danvrgs]

Hey Everyone,

Do you recommend beginners getting their certifications when they start sailing or do you think it's more useful just to get out on the water and start doing it?

Any pros and cons you would like to share would be appreciated.

I'm mostly wondering if I should spend the money for the experience and insurance benefits or save it and put that into an actual boat and just learn doing it with friends etc..?

[slowneasy]

When I started I completed ASA 101 and 103. I had a great instructor with many years sailing experience in all types of conditions. He did a great job making the class practical as well as covering the ASA material. If your the type of learner that does best with hand's on instruction, then an ASA class with a quality instructor can be money well spent. Looking back, I would have spent the money elsewhere and just went sailing, but the other 2 members of my class said it was worth every penny. Dont get me wrong I received value for the class, but most things I could have learned through reading and experience in the first year. It really is a personal decision.

The class didn't make any difference in my insurance premiums.

One final thing I would say is that if you will not practice what you read then the class may be a better option. The MOB drills, heaving too, etc are not complicated, but you need to practice them to fully understand the techniques. Class or no class get out on the water whenever you can with a responsible Captain.

[a64pilot]

I never took any classes, and my Insurence was happy that I had prior “big boat” experience on power boats. I don’t think the classes count for Insurence, which to me says a lot.
I was never asked to prove this experience, which I couldn’t do.

[Jim Cate]

The concept of these sailing classes is pretty new to the world. One hell of a lot of folks became competent sailors in the years before ASA or YRA began selling their classes and ideas.

Some folks learn best in formal classroom situations, others by self instruction, reading and hands on experience related to that reading. Only you know your own preferences. But always remember that the dollars spent on classes (and the oft recommended follow up of chartering) can easily add up to equal the cost of a modest starter boat of your own. And owning your own boat will teach you many things that ASA will not!

Jim

[dwedeking2]

I took a week liveaboard program in mexico for 101 - 103. My take:

1) allowed me to bareboat rent a couple boats afterwords to decide on the size of boat i wanted.

2) allowed me to do some hands on training with someone on board to build confidence.

3) allowed me to spend sometime with other newbies to discuss common questions etc.

4) did nothing for insurance

[elee]

I agree with the above that the instructor can really make or break the value of a course, so get references if you are going to take courses.

I started off with dinghies at the college club, then at a crew circle for Wednesday night races. I then went on to take courses up to ASA 106.

I believe a "formal" curriculum gave me more confidence that I wasn't "missing" anything important. Sure, one can certainly piece together competencies on one's own, but the courses fast tracked this somewhat. The tricky thing with self-taught is you don't know what you don't know.

In my situation, I think it would have been more difficult and time consuming to gain skills without a course. I didn't have my own boat, so I would have had to pick up the skill through crewing regularly on the race boats, and then finding someone to let me practice docking, etc.

ASA 104 allowed me to take local club boats out on my own, so I can practice skills. I then took a 1 day cruising catamaran course and have since bareboat chartered worldwide. Correct me if wrong, but I think charter companies like seeing certifications, with the minimum probably being ASA 104... (and yes, I agree they are not be all and end all, and that there are plenty who still can't sail with ASA certs).

So to answer your question, I'd say, if you are a little short on time or impatient, have money, and want to get a good foundation, do the courses. If you have a lot of time to learn on your own, maybe don't have money for courses, and want to "learn as you go..." then probably just doing it would be acceptable.

[chris mac]

Well, I did both. We bough a 26' lake boat to learn on, and after the first year we did competent crew and day skipper through an ispa week long live aboard course.
It worked well for us.
We learnt enough on our boat that we were receptive to the course and knew what we were weak on. After the course we were able to continue practising what we had learnt.
Both have their place. It also depends on how you learn best I like to tinker and figure things out, my wife likes a qualified teacher demonstrating proper technique.
Do what works best for you, or if you aren't sure, do both.
The course worked out cheaper for us than a bare boat charter, so if nothing else we got a week long charter in the gorgeous gulf islands. The education was a bonus.
But pick your instructor well. Keep it relaxed and fun.

[toddster8]

It’s hard to say... I bought a small boat and “just did it” for a year or two. Then I took some lessons to have something to show to charter operators and get some experience on bigger boats.

- Reviews don’t help. The place I went to has glowing reviews, because they pass everybody, no matter what. Some of the classes were a complete waste. Got more info from reading books. On the other hand, being in a formal class does force you to complete the book and do the exercises on schedule.

- To a large extent, despite everything else, the value you get from the practical courses depends on how the weather turns out on the days that you signed up for. Nobody can control that.

- My insurance rates haven’t changed, but I haven’t actually told the underwriter about the classses. If you check your insurance policy, the underwriter specifies the areas and activities for which you are covered. Certifications and documented experience ought to help in negotiating a wider coverage.

[gamayun]

Buy a smallish boat and learn with friends then ask a school to test you out of the basic class(es) until you get to the one with gaps in your knowledge base. The problem with the very basic classes IMO is that they lump everyone together - both those with some sailing experience and those who've never been on a boat before. At least in the more advanced classes, most people already know the difference between a tack and a gybe....

[Macblaze]

Originally Posted by Danvrgs

Hey Everyone,

Do you recommend beginners getting their certifications when they start sailing or do you think it's more useful just to get out on the water and start doing it?

Any pros and cons you would like to share would be appreciated.

I'm mostly wondering if I should spend the money for the experience and insurance benefits or save it and put that into an actual boat and just learn doing it with friends etc..?

Like everything else in life the more you learn the more your realize what you don't know. In the case of boating something to consider is the vast scope that "boating" covers and what your goals are. I would recommend you pick up the workbooks for competent crew, day skipper, coastal skipper and navigation (or whatever the equivalents are in your chosen school) just to read through. Heck, even turning the table of contents into a checklist would be of benefit. That way you can pick and chose skills and knowledge appropriate to you.

Depending on your situation and your boat learning to "sail" and learning to "cruise" can encompass a lot of different things, some of them not so obvious until something goes wrong or a unique situation comes up. Here in the PNW with our big tides and plethora of tidal rapids a navigation course is a must IMHO...it is just not something to learn by experience. But learning to sail by yourself in our mostly benign summer winds isn't that bad an idea. Maybe not something I would try where the winds are steady at 20 knots every day.

Like others we started doing Cruise and Learns by chartering our own boat with a skipper and made a holiday of it. My only advice if you do that is don't sweat the marks or passing anything. Focus on learning what you want and screw the official curriculum.

[texingram1]

Originally Posted by Danvrgs

Hey Everyone,

Do you recommend beginners getting their certifications when they start sailing or do you think it's more useful just to get out on the water and start doing it?

Any pros and cons you would like to share would be appreciated.

I'm mostly wondering if I should spend the money for the experience and insurance benefits or save it and put that into an actual boat and just learn doing it with friends etc..?

Been sailing for about 50 years. always on smaller boats - 22' - 25'. own a 36' sailboat now - went to ASA for 103, 101, 104 to better understand what I've been doing. Was well worth it. Just don't use it as much as I should - insurer was pleased - not enough to discount

[sunshineslacker]

Hi, i would recommend both, some formal training that covers the basics, boat equipment and how to use and maintain, navigation, weather, colregs, safety equipment etc...there is a lot to learn, then lots of practical, in situtations where you can learn from the mistakes you will make. Cheers, enjoy!!!

[jewt]

I started sailing in '69 with a 16' sailboat and a "how to sail" book, after a 25 footer and a 33 footer (10 years later) I got my CG captain license, which I never used and another 10 years later a US Power Squadron full certificate. Have only used that once to charter in the BVI's. I now own a 44 Center cockpit Morgan and let my Captain's license expire do to lack of use. Get the knowledge by being on the water and studying/reading.

jewt

S/V Bifrost (8)

[amanoni]

Well, my wife and I have taken 101-104. I had sailed quite a bit prior to the classes, my wife had not. This was a great way for the two of us to have shared sailing experience. Another aspect was as others stated the quality of the instructor. Our 101/103 classes were in the winter months here in the PNW. We were "fortunate" to have less than ideal sailing, blustery, Beaufort 6&7 winds. For my wife this was great, since we were with the instructor her level of angst was greatly reduced.

The 104 class also similar to another respondent, allowed us to check out a couple boats and help determine what we were looking for to cruise the PNW.

[roland stockham]

Buy a beat up dingy, about 14ft. When you get it wrong it will either stop or dump you in the water. You will learn far more about sailing than on a cruising boat. Read everything both technical and experiences. Classes are also good because they are structured, don't miss bits and the instructor should have the time and skill to help you learn. I am a professional instructor (medical not sailing although I use to teach dingy sailing back in the day) but if I am out on the boat with someone to go sailing I don't want to 'run a class'. Friends boats are great places to gain experience but however experienced they are they may not have the time, inclination or skill to 'teach'. Think of learning to drive. You could book lessons, get you mom or dad to teach you or sit in the back of a friends car and watch what they do. Which one would get you a license fastest...