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Old 27-10-2010, 16:53   #16
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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
G'Day all,

This subject specifically has been beaten to death here on CF, and if one goes over all the arguments, one realizes that it all comes down to personal preferences.

So, my personal preference is for an aft cockpit design. I have never understood the obsession with using somewhere around 30-35% of the boats usable volume for a place that you use for around 8 hours a day... unconscious! YMMV.

I won't reiterate all the arguments that have been aired before, and leave it to the individual buyer to decide what is best for them.

Cheers

Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II (aft cockpit, 2 comfortable aft cabins) lying Airlie Beach, Qld, Oz
But that 20 min right before unconsciousness is oh so blissful...and I spend 30 to 35 % of my day thinking about it...
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Old 27-10-2010, 17:29   #17
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G'day, Mate. Center cockpit here. Generally, center cockpits are going to have a higher aspect rig than a comparable length aft cockpit version. The height of the boom off the deck increases to make it work. This will mean that you will be reefing the main earlier on the center cockpit model to minimize the effects of your angle of heel.

We have not found this to be a compromise in our situation and would buy a center cockpit again. The benefits of the layout in our lifestyle has worked extremely well. All the best with your analysis. Cheers.
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Old 27-10-2010, 17:53   #18
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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
I have never understood the obsession with using somewhere around 30-35% of the boats usable volume for a place that you use for around 8 hours a day... unconscious! YMMV.
Oz
Every aft cockpit berth I've seen is some sort of cave to be crawled into.
Also, I prefer to be able to sit up in bed or on the edge of the bed and also have plenty of standing room for dressing and undressing. I think the standing room is probably the most important aspect. Don't like bumping my head on fiberglass. I might eventually damage the boat.
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Old 27-10-2010, 18:03   #19
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For us, it came down to this:

50% of the owner of our boat LOVES the "Palace" (or, as it was previously known when the original owner had it, the "Fornicatorium"). She also loves the owner's head. With the separate shower. And the "beach" as she calls the deck between the cockpit and the stern. And the walkup stern steps. Oh, I could go on...

More info here:

McIntosh 47 Yachts - Fast cruising yachts for discerning owners

P.S. - as for performance, a sister ship of ours, "Sole Mate" not only won her class at this year's Harvest Moon Regatta, she won her 51 boat division. And they arrived in 35kts of wind in 10 foot seas in the Gulf of Mexico "dry, fed, watered and rested". Not much of the rest of the 225 boat fleet could say the same.
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Old 27-10-2010, 18:41   #20
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Cons:

1. Higher boom
2. Cockpit drainage
3. Smaller cockpit
4. Access to aft cabin on smaller CC boats

Pros:

1. Much better view of what you are doing, especially docking.
2. Aft cabin configuration much better in larger boats, especially, privacy.
3. After deck space! Some of the nicest space on the boat is the after deck on a CC!

I have not noticed that CC boats are less dry than AC boats.

View of what you are doing kind of trumps all other values for me, as it does with motor vehicles. It's extremely important to me. FWIW.
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Old 28-10-2010, 04:50   #21
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seeing several mentions of a higher boom. I'm sitting between an AC Jenneau 45 & a Beneteau First 40, a performance boat. My boom is only marginally higher that either of those 2. There is a Hunter 45CC that has a higher boom than anybody else on my dock. So higher boom is a maybe not a sure thing from what I see.
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Old 28-10-2010, 04:57   #22
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Originally Posted by gettinthere View Post
seeing several mentions of a higher boom. I'm sitting between an AC Jenneau 45 & a Beneteau First 40, a performance boat. My boom is only marginally higher that either of those 2. There is a Hunter 45CC that has a higher boom than anybody else on my dock. So higher boom is a maybe not a sure thing from what I see.
It depends on the boat, of course, but there are a few objective things:

1. The lower the boom, the better performance of the mainsail. More drive for less heeling moment

2. Boom height is set according to what is safe in relation to the heads of people in the cockpit.

3. Center cockpits are higher than aft cockpits by their nature.

Therefore, center cockpit boats usually have higher booms than a similar aft cockpit boat, and that is a disadvantage. My boom must be 13 - 14 feet off the water.
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Old 28-10-2010, 05:12   #23
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I don't see the problem with a high boom.
We are talking about cruising yachts so they don't need to perform like a racing boat and even then booms on racing boats are getting high!

Look at the attached photo of the boat with an interesting concept in halyard tension, see how its boom really is quite high. Does it really matter if a cruising boats boom is 6 foot higher?
It would still have a lower aspect than the racing boat (and those racers all look alive to me - except for the halyard guy).

Get the boom up and keep the topless girls heads on. If you get an extra 1 degree heal at 20 knots then go make a toasted sandwich and enjoy the ride.

The thing that is, imho, important is the size of the cockpit. Center cockpits are small because of the walkthoughts below and the mainsheet position. Aft cockpit have gotten rid of those problems.

In the cruise of your life you are going to be living in that cockpit! Some people clearly spend more time in there than any other place on their boat. A boat next to me for the last few weeks has all meals there, and relax all day and into the night they have groovy his and her solar reading spotlights. Their cruise is their cockpit! They are enjoying it immensly

The thing that you need consider is how many people can you comfortable sit at Sundowners around your cockpit? Will someone be stuck behind the wheel and have an instrument dashbord blocking their view of their new friends? On your cruise you will do lots of entertaining in there! Theres no time to clean up its got to always be clean(ish) because people with dinghy past you, you'll wave, they wave back and in 10 seconds you'll have them aboard having coffee (or beer). Its not like at home where people don't drop by, they ring first giving you time to shove the undies under the sofa.

Lots of center cockpit boats have large cockpits but it needs to be inspected carefully first as some are woefully small.

To reiterate: for cruising your cockpit and refrigeration is more important that having a low center of effort on your mainsail...
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Old 28-10-2010, 05:21   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
I don't see the problem with a high boom.
We are talking about cruising yachts so they don't need to perform like a racing boat and even then booms on racing boats are getting high!

Look at the attached photo of the boat with an interesting concept in halyard tension, see how its boom really is quite high. Does it really matter if a cruising boats boom is 6 foot higher?
It would still have a lower aspect than the racing boat (and those racers all look alive to me - except for the halyard guy).

Get the boom up and keep the topless girls heads on. If you get an extra 1 degree heal at 20 knots then go make a toasted sandwich and enjoy the ride.

The thing that is, imho, important is the size of the cockpit. Center cockpits are small because of the walkthoughts below and the mainsheet position. Aft cockpit have gotten rid of those problems.

In the cruise of your life you are going to be living in that cockpit! Some people clearly spend more time in there than any other place on their boat. A boat next to me for the last few weeks has all meals there, and relax all day and into the night they have groovy his and her solar reading spotlights. Their cruise is their cockpit! They are enjoying it immensly

The thing that you need consider is how many people can you comfortable sit at Sundowners around your cockpit? Will someone be stuck behind the wheel and have an instrument dashbord blocking their view of their new friends? On your cruise you will do lots of entertaining in there! Theres no time to clean up its got to always be clean(ish) because people with dinghy past you, you'll wave, they wave back and in 10 seconds you'll have them aboard having coffee (or beer). Its not like at home where people don't drop by, they ring first giving you time to shove the undies under the sofa.

Lots of center cockpit boats have large cockpits but it needs to be inspected carefully first as some are woefully small.

To reiterate: for cruising your cockpit and refrigeration is more important that having a low center of effort on your mainsail...
I completely agree about the cockpit being the center of life on a cruising boat.

Don't forget, however, that a center cockpit boat has got an after deck behind the cockpit, which greatly extends your living space abovedecks (if you don't have it cluttered up with a dink on chocks, of course). In calm weather on a big enough boat this is even living space under way, and the pushpit seats are the best seats in the house.

So a CC boat an afford to have a somewhat smaller cockpit, because the cockpit is not the only living space abovedecks.
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Old 28-10-2010, 05:38   #25
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a center cockpit boat has got an after deck behind the cockpit, .
yes, big enough for a few deckchairs on some.
Theres a new Oyster 575 in the marina here (I think its Barnies new boat) and it has put twin wheels aft the cockpit and its quite sensational in opening up the space in an otherwise unremarkable sized center cockpit.

I am trying for drinks on board just to checkout the galley and the papa's daughter to see if she's eligible, he's teetering and her workspace.......
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Old 28-10-2010, 06:00   #26
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I am looking at CCs too at the moment. One thing that has come to my mind is the rock and roll factor as the cockpit is higher and further forward than and aft cockpit boat.

Can ayone explain if this theory is true?
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Old 28-10-2010, 06:16   #27
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Center Cockpit Yachts

We've had aft cockpit boats right from the start. When it was time to start the search for "The Boat" that we were going to fulfill the dreams with,,, a center cockpit wasn't even in the running.

Needless to say, that is exactly what we wound up with.

So,, here's what I've found. First, GAME PLAN sails like a demon. She's rigged as a cutter, not the fastest rig but she still holds her own nicely. A previous comment is correct in that the underwater hull shape is a big factor not cockpit location.

I find there seems to be much more room below decks and that makes for a much happier first mate.

The afterdeck is great. We have a nice boarding ladder off the stern so boarding from the dink or after a swim is easy.

Performance in backing down is the same but the big difference is that with the center cockpit,, judging distances from the helm can be exciting. I have the wife on deck to help me with this when we are in close quarters situations.

Also, when under sail, monitoring the main is not as easy since it's directly overhead and is blocked by our Bimini. Not a huge issue but it's a pain at times.

The centerline bed is nice at anchor but like you suggest, it can be uncomfortable at sea. The solution to this was pointed out to me by the wife and is so simple I'm embarrassed to admit I didn't think of it. Lay across the bed with your head to the windward side. Try it,, I sleep like a baby.

I've never noticed any significant difference in the windage created by the higher freeboard but that's just me.

Lastly was a big surprise for us. We were concerned about GAME PLAN being a wet boat because of the cockpit location. As it turns out, and I have no explanation for this,, she is significantly drier than aftcockpit designs of the same size.

This boat is a real surprise for me. I had a list of things I didn't want on the new boat. Wood on deck (GAME PLAN has a forest of brightwork), center cockpit, cored hull, etc.,,, and this boat has most of them. And we just love her. Go figure.

My advise, do your homework, have fun with the hunt, and don't be surprised if the girl that catches your eye is one you've never considered before.
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Old 28-10-2010, 06:31   #28
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Monitoring the main under the bimini can easily be fixed with a pair of clear panels sewn into the bimini. Common on both AC & CC boats
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Old 28-10-2010, 08:16   #29
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I like Sailor954 comments. I think he is the first to mention about the perspective from the helm both in respect to (1) docking and (2) sailing.
(1) While docking, a center cockpit seems like a much smaller boat compared to an equivalent aft cockpit. You get used to it. The perspective is more just different than inherently better or worse.
(2) When sailing, visibility is better in an aft cockpit. A Genoa blocks your leeward view. Clear Bimini panels help with the main, but again it is a different experience. Looking at it from the opposite way, leeward visibility could be a reason to choose an aft cockpit?
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Old 28-10-2010, 10:21   #30
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THE BIG advantage to our cc is that it is what she would agree to buy.
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