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Old 11-06-2014, 07:28   #31
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Re: Production Boats vs Custom Boats

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
Not always true. If I need something for the boat, I call Oyster yachts, and the item is waiting for me at my next stop, usually at the same cost as through West Marine/Port Supply. Try that with Hunter.
Something tells me that you paid for that service indirectly somewhere.

If you have internet access, you can achieve the same thing on the Hunter.
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Old 11-06-2014, 07:29   #32
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Re: Production Boats vs Custom Boats

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I am only looking for input and opinion so that I can enhance my own education through the experience of others whom are likely more knowledgable than me about a subject matter that is relatively new to me.
I realize that. It is just that beyond that fact that money normally buys nicer stuff there is no other knowledge to be gained. The real question you need to ask is once you find a boat that interests you is check into that model for it's record.

My production boat is 13 years old. To date I have only had to fix 1 item that the builder directly made or assembled that wasn't really a standard marine item made by someone other manufacturer (such as a pump or autopilot). The cost of fixing that 1 item was pretty high as it was $20
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Old 11-06-2014, 08:26   #33
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Re: Production Boats vs Custom Boats

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
Not always true. If I need something for the boat, I call Oyster yachts, and the item is waiting for me at my next stop, usually at the same cost as through West Marine/Port Supply. Try that with Hunter.
Oyster is famous for that -- even other very expensive makers don't offer that kind of service. That was a brilliant stroke on the part of Richard Matthews which was a huge part of creating the Oyster mystique which sold so many expensive boats. That kind of service is also really just extremely valuable to owners -- I'm surprised that other makers haven't imitated that.
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Old 11-06-2014, 08:35   #34
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Re: Production Boats vs Custom Boats

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Oyster is famous for that -- even other very expensive makers don't offer that kind of service. That was a brilliant stroke on the part of Richard Matthews which was a huge part of creating the Oyster mystique which sold so many expensive boats. That kind of service is also really just extremely valuable to owners -- I'm surprised that other makers haven't imitated that.

I think some have. I haven't had to use it but understand Island Packet will bend over backwards for their owners. Even old boats that have been through several owners get the same treatment.
Not saying they go as far as Oyster of course but rumor is they are way more helpful than most
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Old 11-06-2014, 15:40   #35
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Re: Production Boats vs Custom Boats

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....

For a true custom or highly limited semi production boat, what really becomes problematic is finding replacement parts and repairs...this us where the costs really add up.
We see this argument here all too often, and I don't think it holds much value.

Exactly what "replacement parts" are we talking about? Both custom and production yachts use engines, deck hardware, running and standing rigging, electronics and so on that are produced by third party manufacturers. These are the things that need replacement bits during the life of the vessel.

The custom parts are the design of the hull and interior, the furniture, and the quality of the workmanship that goes into the build. These things don't need repair or replacement. Much the same work, for instance, will go into repairing hull damage from a collision in a production boat and a one-off.

The real benefit of a custom design is in having things the way YOU want them, not the way some marketing geek wants them, and in having workmanship in the execution that is not predicated on a time and motion study. Only you can decide if these factors are worth the additional expense.

Cheers,

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Old 11-06-2014, 16:30   #36
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Re: Production Boats vs Custom Boats

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We see this argument here all too often, and I don't think it holds much value.

Exactly what "replacement parts" are we talking about? Both custom and production yachts use engines, deck hardware, running and standing rigging, electronics and so on that are produced by third party manufacturers. These are the things that need replacement bits during the life of the vessel.

The custom parts are the design of the hull and interior, the furniture, and the quality of the workmanship that goes into the build. These things don't need repair or replacement. Much the same work, for instance, will go into repairing hull damage from a collision in a production boat and a one-off.

The real benefit of a custom design is in having things the way YOU want them, not the way some marketing geek wants them, and in having workmanship in the execution that is not predicated on a time and motion study. Only you can decide if these factors are worth the additional expense.

Cheers,

Jim
I'd add one thing on custom boats. Do not push the builder outside their comfort zone. That means don't go after a boat larger than they've build or totally different. And if they have consistently installed certain engines or equipment, think long and hard before you insist on another brand with which they have zero experience. Stabilizers on power boats is a huge area that if they lack the experience it can be very wrong. Builders struggle all the time trying to meet buyer requests they should say "no" to. Choose a builder whose previous work comes closest to what you want. That way you're at least starting from something familiar.

A custom build can be a dream come true or your worst nightmare. We've done semi-custom and had a great experience but with limited significant changes. Custom builds tend to drag on beyond the promised time and that is often the fault of both the builder and the buyer.

And if it's a custom or relatively new build on the used market find out why. It may be that the build really missed the target.
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Old 11-06-2014, 16:51   #37
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Re: Production Boats vs Custom Boats

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Try heading way down south on a production coastal cruiser where Boat Assist and help are a little more than a phone call away.

Some will insist there's no difference and that all boats are the same.... but, which boat would you rather be on?
What's the boat ?

Able 58 ?
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Old 11-06-2014, 17:18   #38
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Re: Production Boats vs Custom Boats

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What's the boat ?

Able 58 ?

Oyster 65, I believe
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Old 11-06-2014, 17:25   #39
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Re: Production Boats vs Custom Boats

Outta my league

One of those would be around $5m new
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Old 11-06-2014, 17:35   #40
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Re: Production Boats vs Custom Boats

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Outta my league

One of those would be around $5m new

I think something rather between 3 and 4 millions for new 665 depending on specification - if it make a difference for You...
Unhappily it doesn't for me
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Old 11-06-2014, 17:38   #41
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Re: Production Boats vs Custom Boats

The reason to build a custom boat is simple . . . if you know what you want and can't find it in a production boat.

That was the case for us. After sailing around the world the first time, we had a few very simple requirements for the 'next boat' but found there was no/none/nada/zip productions boats that offered those requirements all together.

Custom boats can be more expensive or less expensive than production. They can be better built or less well built. That all depends on what the owner wants. Hawk was not particularly expensive because while we put money into structure & reliability & performance we put very little into fancy furniture, varnish and gloss paint (all of which can soak up a ton of man hours) and we also put very little into fancy systems and gizzmos, and there was zero corporate overhead/management charges/costs the way we built her.

The true 'offshore' market is an extremely tiny niche. Essentially no 'production' production boat really targets it (despite what their advertising says). You can of course take many production boats offshore, and many do well; but it is not what they were primarily designed to do, and a boat truly designed for offshore looks and feels very different. When Hawk is in someplace like Newport, she looks like a wolf among sheep

But if you don't know enough to know what you want, then don't think about a custom boat.
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Old 11-06-2014, 17:50   #42
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None of you have mentioned the cost of engineering, tooling or software. These costs can be $100,000's but can be amortized over lots of production. Most production boats are a cross between dock queens and costal cruiser and they do it well. Get a boat for a arctic cruise? It would sure suck on the beer can races.
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Old 11-06-2014, 17:58   #43
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Re: Production Boats vs Custom Boats

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I think something rather between 3 and 4 millions for new 665 depending on specification - if it make a difference for You...
Unhappily it doesn't for me
You might be quoting launch price but I am thinking of sailaway price. I could certainly see one of those costing $3m at the factory gate.
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Old 11-06-2014, 18:00   #44
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Re: Production Boats vs Custom Boats

NO!

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Get a boat for a arctic cruise? It would sure suck on the beer can races.

If you want to design a custom boat that can do both the arctic and well at beer can races you can. In fact Hawk does - 50% ballast ratio, 22SA/disp., 7' bulbed keel, quite light when the 'expedition' diesel and water tanks are empty . . . . but still well strong enough and warm enough with enough stowage for the arctic.

None of you have mentioned the cost of engineering, tooling or software. These costs can be $100,000's but can be amortized over lots of production.

No tooling for an aluminum boat. No 'software' expense. And a total cost of $3000 for engineering - we basically just took an already existing successful design and doubled it structurally.

Most production boats are a cross between dock queens and costal cruiser and they do it well.

That is true.
There are in fact very limited 'production scale economies' in production boats and they are way more than offset by corporate overhead and marketing costs.
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Old 11-06-2014, 18:36   #45
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To design a aluminum boat and systems for $3,000 would be a stretch even if you went to china.
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