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Old 02-03-2016, 16:08   #91
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Re: Pro/Con of outboard for blue water cruising

The OP is buying his first sailboat and asking about the pros and cons of an outboard on a "bluewater" boat.

Geez! First spending a day or so in the waves without power, gas or diesel, in a coastal situation may help you decide really fast.

Taking about putting the cart before the horse.

Outboards are fine if you can deal with the lack of range simply because most sailors hate having any gas onboard much less mass quantities.

Maybe 7 gallons or so max for me. Range maybe 140 miles (on my boat anyway) which has a 5hp 4 stroke 25" shaft OB)

Many cross oceans with much less. Tania Aebi's diesel rarely worked during her circumnavigation
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Old 02-03-2016, 16:18   #92
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Re: Pro/Con of outboard for blue water cruising

Last fall we bought a Taran 27 with the diesel already removed. There is a 9.9hp long shaft. Previous owner said it worked well. But we are considering installing a used diesel. We haven't sailed her yet but she'll be on one of the strongest river currents (6+ knots) in New England, the Piscataqua River in Dover/Portsmouth, NH. We'll test it this summer. I feel a little more comfortable after reading some of these posts though.
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Old 02-03-2016, 16:21   #93
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pirate Re: Pro/Con of outboard for blue water cruising

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Originally Posted by Crealock37 View Post
An outboard would be great if it was (1) waterproof (could run underwater) and (2) didn't require you to carry much gasoline (that is, ran on diesel). In other words, get an inboard diesel.

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Old 02-03-2016, 17:07   #94
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Re: Pro/Con of outboard for blue water cruising

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You want a diesel outboard.. try these..
LHD Series | Klaxon Diesel Outboard Motors
I have wondered about those... 48 kg (over 100 lbs) for a 9hp. I wonder how they are? I would like the increased safety and range... Have you tried these?

oops, wait a minute, over 78 kg?... yikes, so that is why we don't use them..
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Old 02-03-2016, 17:23   #95
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Re: Pro/Con of outboard for blue water cruising

Get the longest shaft possible 25" works well on less than 26'. If you look a total cost I love out boards but when the prop leaves the water they make lose fans drives.


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Old 02-03-2016, 17:23   #96
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Re: Pro/Con of outboard for blue water cruising

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Originally Posted by Jhubb_99 View Post
Last fall we bought a Taran 27 with the diesel already removed. There is a 9.9hp long shaft. Previous owner said it worked well. But we are considering installing a used diesel. We haven't sailed her yet but she'll be on one of the strongest river currents (6+ knots) in New England, the Piscataqua River in Dover/Portsmouth, NH. We'll test it this summer. I feel a little more comfortable after reading some of these posts though.
The stern of the Tartan 27 is fairly similar to mine in height off the water. The 40 year-old mount/hoist designed and built by the PO engineer of my boat is strong, lowers the engine to correct depth and lifts up clear with the old mainsheet and blocks easily. If you check my album you'll see a couple shots of it. With the engine coverede I don't have problems with splashes on it. I also don't have the prop coming out of the water, and I think the same would be true of the Tartan, with its transom close to the water like mine. While I am fine with my set-up, if I had a boat built for an inboard I'd probably be saving up my pennies for a diesel, even though it is a love/hate relationship with an inboard for me.
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Old 02-03-2016, 20:01   #97
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Re: Pro/Con of outboard for blue water cruising

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Sure, I love the heat and smell of diesel in a hot tropical cabin (not).

PS: When did they start making diesels that run under water?
I was being facetious. An outboard -- because it's out-board -- will end up completely underwater at some point during blue water cruising. In other words, I think it's a dumb idea to contemplate it, so an inboard is needed. I hate the smell of diesel, too (none on my boat, thankfully), but I hate the way gasoline catches fire even more.


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Old 02-03-2016, 21:39   #98
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Re: Pro/Con of outboard for blue water cruising

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Originally Posted by Jhubb_99 View Post
Last fall we bought a Taran 27 with the diesel already removed. There is a 9.9hp long shaft. Previous owner said it worked well. But we are considering installing a used diesel. We haven't sailed her yet but she'll be on one of the strongest river currents (6+ knots) in New England, the Piscataqua River in Dover/Portsmouth, NH. We'll test it this summer. I feel a little more comfortable after reading some of these posts though.
Don't get too comfy.

If you are above the bridges or heck... above the Coast Guard station, you need to be sure that 9.9 has perfect fuel/water separation and filters and no ethanol.

Additionally, that it's an adequate prop.

6 knots seems like the bleeding edge for a 27' tartan with a 9.9.
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Old 02-03-2016, 22:01   #99
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Re: Pro/Con of outboard for blue water cruising

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Originally Posted by Jhubb_99 View Post
Last fall we bought a Taran 27 with the diesel already removed. There is a 9.9hp long shaft. Previous owner said it worked well. But we are considering installing a used diesel. We haven't sailed her yet but she'll be on one of the strongest river currents (6+ knots) in New England, the Piscataqua River in Dover/Portsmouth, NH. We'll test it this summer. I feel a little more comfortable after reading some of these posts though.
First, the Tartan 27 is an awesome boat.

A little math and the specs tell me that you could push your T27 at 5 knots with only 8hp. However, to achieve hull speed of 6.2 knots, you would need 16hp. Which agrees with the anecdotal evidence of the original atomic 4 pushing it at hull speed with only half throttle.

No matter what your engine choice, fighting a current of 6 knots is going to be a big problem.

I'm going to suggest the crazy idea of a an electric outboard (totally sealed, so swamping not an issue) rated about 10-12hp with a small inboard generator where the engine used to be...along with a few extra batteries of course. Crazy? Just crazy enough to work!
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Old 02-03-2016, 22:09   #100
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Re: Pro/Con of outboard for blue water cruising

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First, the Tartan 27 is an awesome boat.

A little math and the specs tell me that you could push your T27 at 5 knots with only 8hp. However, to achieve hull speed of 6.2 knots, you would need 16hp. Which agrees with the anecdotal evidence of the original atomic 4 pushing it at hull speed with only half throttle.

No matter what your engine choice, fighting a current of 6 knots is going to be a big problem.

I'm going to suggest the crazy idea of a an electric outboard (totally sealed, so swamping not an issue) rated about 10-12hp with a small inboard generator where the engine used to be...along with a few extra batteries of course. Crazy? Just crazy enough to work!
Well, not crazy, but kind of pricey... and the space needed for it all might be hard to find on a 27 footer... but the engine might be small enough to put into a well in the lazarette, then lifted out when not needed... but where to put the generator...(I've been rolling that idea around too BTW.)
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Old 02-03-2016, 22:14   #101
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Re: Pro/Con of outboard for blue water cruising

Ok generator where the engine was... air cooled? Gas or diesel? Now who was it that posted that news about a new prototype diesel engine generator with no drive shaft? Imagine that, air cooled? That might be a nice set-up...

here it is, found it:
http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cult...toyota-engine/

or this one!

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Old 03-03-2016, 00:06   #102
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Re: Pro/Con of outboard for blue water cruising

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Originally Posted by Crealock37 View Post
I was being facetious. An outboard -- because it's out-board -- will end up completely underwater at some point during blue water cruising. In other words, I think it's a dumb idea to contemplate it, so an inboard is needed. I hate the smell of diesel, too (none on my boat, thankfully), but I hate the way gasoline catches fire even more.


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I was also being facetious.

Assuming a boat designed for an outboard, there is no reason to expect it to be underwater at some point.

As far as gasoline, don't do stupid things and the smell of diesel is likely your worse problem.
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Old 03-03-2016, 06:52   #103
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Re: Pro/Con of outboard for blue water cruising

Pitching is the only problem with out boards. As you pass a steep wave your stern lifts or falls. As the boat gets longer the distance gets greater. Going under was never a big deal (never stalled) but coming out was. Motor would scream and then air around prop would stop proposition for what seemed like forever.
Back in the early eighties I sailed out of a port with a 75 meter channel. In a breeze it was very difficult to keep the prop in the water and make headway with no current. Twenty six footers and twenty five footers had big problems l seen mean make sudden u turns from the lack of proportions. I had a 22' heavy ballasted boat and a few times my prop would come clear of the water.
Short Streep waves will stop you dead count on it.



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Old 05-03-2016, 06:10   #104
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Re: Pro/Con of outboard for blue water cruising

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Originally Posted by Don C L View Post
The stern of the Tartan 27 is fairly similar to mine in height off the water. The 40 year-old mount/hoist designed and built by the PO engineer of my boat is strong, lowers the engine to correct depth and lifts up clear with the old mainsheet and blocks easily. If you check my album you'll see a couple shots of it. With the engine coverede I don't have problems with splashes on it. I also don't have the prop coming out of the water, and I think the same would be true of the Tartan, with its transom close to the water like mine. While I am fine with my set-up, if I had a boat built for an inboard I'd probably be saving up my pennies for a diesel, even though it is a love/hate relationship with an inboard for me.
Considering a larger outboard. I have an opportunity to by a used Yamaha 25hp 4 stroke, 160lbs. Any thoughts on if the transom of the Tartan 27 is capable of holding that weight?
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Old 05-03-2016, 08:09   #105
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Re: Pro/Con of outboard for blue water cruising

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Considering a larger outboard. I have an opportunity to by a used Yamaha 25hp 4 stroke, 160lbs. Any thoughts on if the transom of the Tartan 27 is capable of holding that weight?
Well there is both weight and thrust, which is pretty low and be trying to pull out on the upper part of the transom/mount. Still. I THINK it could handle it ok BUT I am only going by my boat (Columbia 29) which is a similar design and vintage! I am sure a 200 pound person could jump up and down on a mount on my transom without causing it undue strain. BUT I have not scrutinized the Tartan 27 transom. The motor mount itself is the part I'd be more concerned with. And hoisting the engine won't be easy... not sure how I'd rig that. 25 hp may mean also a waste of fuel compared to a 9.9 since you'll never have the engine optimized for boat speed and fuel flow, I think. Still... I'm not sure of that. It won't be working very hard to push it 5 knots or so as long as it has the right prop. Sure is tempting to think of having that much power though! You'll scoff at having to fight a 5 knot current! I THINK your boat does not have enough room in the lazarette for an outboard adaptation a la Baldwin's work that you can see at atomvoyages.com, but I could be wrong, might be worth checking. Much better that a mount on the transom.
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