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Old 13-01-2011, 14:48   #16
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One boat sold, one still available, another just came up. New question:

2 cabin vs. 3 cabin layout. Which is easier to sell when the time comes?? My thoughts are 3 cabin would be better unless it's a marina queen. Reasons would be the ability to have crew/privacy, for families, for charters, for friends, etc. Does this make sense? I can get a good deal on one with a huge rear stateroom but I doubt it will get used much. Plus, I might have both my boys on the boat, or friends and I think having three would be a huge bonus.

I was told by a vested party that a 2 cabin layout is most popular. Opinions?
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Old 13-01-2011, 14:54   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SS Little-Devil View Post
One boat sold, one still available, another just came up. New question:

2 cabin vs. 3 cabin layout. Which is easier to sell when the time comes?? My thoughts are 3 cabin would be better unless it's a marina queen. Reasons would be the ability to have crew/privacy, for families, for charters, for friends, etc. Does this make sense? I can get a good deal on one with a huge rear stateroom but I doubt it will get used much. Plus, I might have both my boys on the boat, or friends and I think having three would be a huge bonus.

I was told by a vested party that a 2 cabin layout is most popular. Opinions?
2 is popular for that aft master... I never used the forecabin in either of my Beneteau's... much prefered sleeping in the aft..
Threes good as a big family/guest boat...
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Old 13-01-2011, 15:23   #18
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U tempt me Boaty!

For the same price you can get a real mans boat

Real Mans Boat

Just to ask, why is this Freedom a "Real Mans Boat"?
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Old 13-01-2011, 15:49   #19
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Forget the profit idea a bonus if you do it but most are happy for the cheap holiday. As others have said big dollars will be needed to fit out to a reasonable comfort/safety level. MarkJ was a very experienced sailor so take your time and enjoy the whole deal. Fit out cost will to some extent depend on how rough you wish to travel (water usage showers etc).
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Old 13-01-2011, 16:54   #20
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Hi SS little Devil. I am thinking of a similar trip in a year or two. But i plan on wintering the carib for six months then heading to winter in the pacific making it a one year trip.

I am weighing up similar options. Smaller Bene's arent great liveaboards, but I have been considering them as well as Hunters (yeah yeah I know) as well as Columbias (for space and comfort-less resale tho) and several other designs. I am still in limbo on the design as you can tell. But I am also considering Out Islands. They are older and cheaper, but are more sea kindly. So I will have to figure that out as I get closer.

Resale in Aus is and interesting one. I think the trip will probably only break even after the cruising fit out, re-rig, major engine overhaul, Life raft, electrical conversion (110volt to 240) and all those extras we forget about- insurance, port fees, fuel,water, panama canal. The big cost at home is going to be the GST and Duty on the boat as well as brokers fees.

If I break even I will be happy. Given that the boat will have given a years accomodation and travel. But I plan on having a few good conversations with local brokers before making any decisions. Boats arent selling for the listed prices on boat point. They only fetch about 80% as I understand it. But a long convo with Vicsail or David Brays may be able to answer that question better.

Cheers Oz
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Old 13-01-2011, 16:58   #21
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Originally Posted by SS Little-Devil View Post
Is it just me or is this a really dumb place to put radar? How hard to move it? It seems like you'd have to leave the bimini up all the time. I'm not sure I'd want that...

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...g_id=1422&url=
The radar appears ok. It seems that the bimini can be folded aft towards the radar mount. The radar mount looks like a custom job. The bimin appears to be a standard type from the chandlers. I can see no reason that it would fold back.

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Old 13-01-2011, 17:09   #22
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Originally Posted by SS Little-Devil View Post
One boat sold, one still available, another just came up. New question:

2 cabin vs. 3 cabin layout. Which is easier to sell when the time comes?? My thoughts are 3 cabin would be better unless it's a marina queen. Reasons would be the ability to have crew/privacy, for families, for charters, for friends, etc. Does this make sense? I can get a good deal on one with a huge rear stateroom but I doubt it will get used much. Plus, I might have both my boys on the boat, or friends and I think having three would be a huge bonus.

I was told by a vested party that a 2 cabin layout is most popular. Opinions?
Beneteau, like most companies that build for charter, make Owners versions and Charter versions. The owner versions tend to have private living with less berths tossed in every nook and cranny.

Resale at home will depend on the buyer. I doubt you will find one here wanting to put an old boat into charter though. Also bene's are generally weekend and club racers here. There are some that cruise. What I am saying is that some of your cruising gear (wind vane, davits etc) may not be wanted by a local buyer and may detract from the sale. These may be better sold individually.

Cheers
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Old 13-01-2011, 18:04   #23
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Beneteau, like most companies that build for charter, make Owners versions and Charter versions. The owner versions tend to have private living with less berths tossed in every nook and cranny.

Resale at home will depend on the buyer. I doubt you will find one here wanting to put an old boat into charter though. Also bene's are generally weekend and club racers here. There are some that cruise. What I am saying is that some of your cruising gear (wind vane, davits etc) may not be wanted by a local buyer and may detract from the sale. These may be better sold individually.

Cheers
Oz
Some very good points there I also do not think that some of the prices seen on Boatpoint etc are ever realised. I sell cars for a living and some of the prices advertised on carsales etc are a joke. You can get badly burnt taking notice of advertised prices. Not sure talking to brokers is going to help either as they want to keep the prices up. What you have to do is read between the lines not easy unless you put a lot of time into your research. The unforeseen extras will eat into your perceived profit at a great rate. Older boats as mentioned are in a nose dive price wise as buyers have suddenly woken up that those old boats are not superior to modern production boats. I have not been able to put my finger on the reason for the sudden change in mass thinking but carefull study here and looking at the overseas trend this becomes apparent. This forum is a great place for info and chatter but I think majority wise does lean to the older designs by way of personal ownership. The wider yacht community does not share this sentiment and they dictate the market $$. It is very easy to get the wrong message from a small biased sample when doing research. Just an example was the recent forum topic of "is cruising on the decline" which by way of a couple of posters having been told by a few cruisers that they are not cruising oz because of new regulations this suddenly was a fact. Yet my cruising the pacific guide says most cruisers head for New Zealand this book is some years old. Sorry to drift off subject
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Old 14-01-2011, 11:46   #24
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Question Buying for yourself or others???

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS Little-Devil View Post
One boat sold, one still available, another just came up. New question:

2 cabin vs. 3 cabin layout. Which is easier to sell when the time comes?? My thoughts are 3 cabin would be better unless it's a marina queen. Reasons would be the ability to have crew/privacy, for families, for charters, for friends, etc. Does this make sense? I can get a good deal on one with a huge rear stateroom but I doubt it will get used much. Plus, I might have both my boys on the boat, or friends and I think having three would be a huge bonus.

I was told by a vested party that a 2 cabin layout is most popular. Opinions?
Meyermm and Oz have offered some interesting points. I’m a cruiser wannbe & my wife and I are taking baby steps as we are still tied to the land. Lake Michigan and the Great Lakes are our training ground. I was an auto mechanic by trade and that is the reason for the following analogy.

What you propose – Buying a high mileage rental car from New York City, make it roadworthy for an extended cross country trip and selling it for a profit in Los Angeles without knowing what pollution standards it will have to meet in CA or if there is even a market for that type of vehicle.

We have a `99 Beneteau 352, one of the last off the line as they were doing the changeover to the 361. We bought from a private owner and have the 2 cabin version. We bought this boat because it fit OUR needs, not the future needs of an unknown buyer in an unknown location. We steered clear of former charter boats because they are often one step away from requiring a major overhaul of most vital systems. Charter boats are often in use seven days a week and used by people that believe you should “sail it like you stole it”. Charter boats often have 3 cabins because they want to offer maximum people space vs. cruising life support storage space.

Posted prices on the internet are often way above what the final selling price is. This economy still sucks and it’s still a buyer’s market. Also keep in mind that systems maintenance/replacement/upgrade is very expensive. Vendors still think that your ability to buy the boat is an indicator that you will be willing to pay the price to maintain the boat. You better be very handy and have the ability to fix “boat stuff” or boat ownership will become very expensive.

As I read the thread, you seem conflicted as to what you want in a boat and seem to try & justify one configuration over another based on an unknown resale market. That would be a mistake. Buy a boat that meets YOUR needs. How long will you sail locally before making your ocean passage? Will crew be permanent or transitory? Are going to make your ocean crossings with a large crew that will require permanent personal accommodations?

I think you need to figure out if you want to be a boat owner or a boat re-seller.
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Old 14-01-2011, 18:10   #25
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Hi MSN, Myer and Oz.

To answer MSN's questions, I will not always have crew, but my oldest son and possible my youngest (15 and 13 by summer) will probably join me for the summer. Certainly the older one will. He may stay on and do grade 10 via correspondence. It's possible that I may have a couple of people come to help crew for different legs, but only one at a time unless my boys are not with me, in which case I may take two for a total of three on board. I would like to get some coastal sailing in or some local sailing in before crossing depending on where I by the boat and have inquired about finding someone to help me get the boat from BVI or Florida to PV if I buy one in those areas.

Personally, the two cabin layout would probably be best for me, as I might sail alone a fair bit, meet someone new or have a girl friend of mine join me for some or all of the trip. If I have my two boys they could share or one could be on a settee. When cruising we won't be all sleeping at the same time anyway.

And yes I want to be a boat owner, not a seller....for now. When it comes time to sell it, that will change. I may keep it for a long time and day sail later, but I won't live on a boat forever. I know that. I have bought numerous cars and trucks and drove them for a summer then sold them. I rarely lost money. It allowed to try out several different kinds of sports cars which was great fun, but it also allowed me to see which ones I liked best too. I sold my last one recently to move and in anticipation of getting a boat, but I will buy another eventually.

Selling the boat in Oz was just a thought regarding having to wait out hurricane season in Oz and secondly, having my route leaving dictated by where the boat is once it passes. I do plan to stay in Oz for 3 months or so, but I'm not sure about sailing routes from Oz when it's times to leave. I'd really like to see Europe and cruise the coast of Africa, but I thought it might be easier to cross further north and work my way south rather than try and sail from Oz up north along the west coast of Africa and Europe. Obviously this will take further research and I don't have to decide now.
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Old 14-01-2011, 18:42   #26
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The radar appears ok. It seems that the bimini can be folded aft towards the radar mount. The radar mount looks like a custom job. The bimin appears to be a standard type from the chandlers. I can see no reason that it would fold back.

Cheers
Oz
Did you notice this boat is already 220v and not 110v??
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Old 14-01-2011, 19:31   #27
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So you are under no illusions about selling a boat in OZ at the moment. I paid $42K for a neat Compass 29 a few years ago. I probably paid too much but that's what they're still asking for the good ones on the boat sites. Due to a new boat being almost here I've had it on the market for about 6 months. For $38k (4 months not one bite). Dropped it to $33k for a month (no nibbles). Two weeks ago I put it at $29990 and became the only Compass 29 under 30K. I looked at the website 3 days after dropping the price and 2 other Compass 29s had dropped their price to under 30K, so presumably no one is buying good second hand boats in Oz at the moment. Any one want to come and take it away?

Maybe not just yet but it may get to that.
Greg
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Old 14-01-2011, 20:26   #28
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So you are under no illusions about selling a boat in OZ at the moment. I paid $42K for a neat Compass 29 a few years ago. I probably paid too much but that's what they're still asking for the good ones on the boat sites. Due to a new boat being almost here I've had it on the market for about 6 months. For $38k (4 months not one bite). Dropped it to $33k for a month (no nibbles). Two weeks ago I put it at $29990 and became the only Compass 29 under 30K. I looked at the website 3 days after dropping the price and 2 other Compass 29s had dropped their price to under 30K, so presumably no one is buying good second hand boats in Oz at the moment. Any one want to come and take it away?

Maybe not just yet but it may get to that.
Greg
I think that is a fairly good representation of the market especially older boats. It is not only boats, cars real estate are all in slow mode. With the QLD floods as well I am not sure which way we are heading. Maybe the floods and the work required to put it all back in place, new furniture etc may actually kick start things. But a boat at this time would really be a gamble I would not take as far as resale goes.
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Old 15-01-2011, 18:37   #29
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Did you notice this boat is already 220v and not 110v??

lol. no.. Ok you save that bit

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Old 15-01-2011, 18:41   #30
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So you are under no illusions about selling a boat in OZ at the moment. I paid $42K for a neat Compass 29 a few years ago. I probably paid too much but that's what they're still asking for the good ones on the boat sites. Due to a new boat being almost here I've had it on the market for about 6 months. For $38k (4 months not one bite). Dropped it to $33k for a month (no nibbles). Two weeks ago I put it at $29990 and became the only Compass 29 under 30K. I looked at the website 3 days after dropping the price and 2 other Compass 29s had dropped their price to under 30K, so presumably no one is buying good second hand boats in Oz at the moment. Any one want to come and take it away?

Maybe not just yet but it may get to that.
Greg
Compass's arent fast movers these days, sadly. While a great sea boat there is so much modern competition in the market place for not much more. Making it harder to move the more traditional boats like Compass, Duncanson etc. Good luck with it tho. I assume you have it with ABB at marmong?

Cheers
Oz
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