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Old 18-12-2014, 11:44   #1
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Plumb Bows, Slab Sides, and Wet Decks

As large production builders [and even many (former?) offshore constructors like Najad] continually move towards sharper entries and ever more slab-sided forward sections I wonder how wet these boats sail upwind in moderate or choppy conditions. I haven't sailed aboard a boat designed post 2000 or so and am curious if these latest designs are notably wetter than the typical 1990 designs of the big production builders.

I realize no gentlemen will have the experience to answer such a question as they do not sail upwind but still hope one of the cads and scoundrels among us might entertain my query of curiosity.
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Old 18-12-2014, 12:14   #2
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re: Plumb Bows, Slab Sides, and Wet Decks

There is a large body of opinion on this forum which suggests that these modern production boats aren't designed to go to sea.

They used to build merchant ships with that sort of profile up frd over a hundred years ago. These days they don't.
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Old 18-12-2014, 13:17   #3
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Re: Plumb Bows, Slab Sides, and Wet Decks

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Originally Posted by El Pinguino View Post
There is a large body of opinion on this forum which suggests that these modern production boats aren't designed to go to sea.

They used to build merchant ships with that sort of profile up frd over a hundred years ago. These days they don't.
Yes, I'm well aware of the debate over hull forms and such, and whether they should or shouldn't go to sea, how many keel bolts one should have, whether they should be glassed or not, skeg hung versus spade rudders and ya da ya da but in this case I am simply curious as to whether this does or doesn't lead to a notable increase in green water and spray in actual fact. While perhaps a better question for a racing forum I thought some here, perhaps one of our deliverers, would have first hand experience.

Thread drift on the first response. Ouch.
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Old 18-12-2014, 13:21   #4
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Re: Plumb Bows, Slab Sides, and Wet Decks

I'd bet they do penetrate the waves more as opposed to ride over them, and would be wetter because of this.
I'd bet there would be less pitching and less pounding as well.
But I haven't sailed these either, so that is just a guess
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Old 18-12-2014, 14:10   #5
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Re: Plumb Bows, Slab Sides, and Wet Decks

My boat mostly fits that description. It can be a little wet in choppy seas without a dodger or some other wind break. It also rides smoothly, cutting through swell and chop that has a wavelength of less than about 1/2 the boat length. It pounds a bit in steep seas with a long wavelength, as one might expect.
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Old 18-12-2014, 14:32   #6
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Re: Plumb Bows, Slab Sides, and Wet Decks

I have enjoyed seeing the videos of the sea trials of the Dashew FPB series of boats (64 up to 97!). If one looks at them and listens to the commentary I think one will find some possible answers to the questions of how those boat design elements perform in seas.

Those boats are power yachts, but incorporate some of the design elements that made the Dashew boats distinctive (plumb bows, narrow beam for length, etc.).

Here is a link to see some.

In particular, I remember the sea trial video for the Iron Lady FPB 64 shows it going into seas (as I recall off New Zealand) with extensive video of the way the boat rides and his analysis of it in slow motion.

Also, on their site there are some videos of their boats in storm conditions and a PDF article with Steve Dashew's views and advice about Extreme Weather (it was published in some boating magazine).

SetSail ยป FPB 64 Videos
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Old 18-12-2014, 14:49   #7
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Re: Plumb Bows, Slab Sides, and Wet Decks

I don't really find them any wetter in similar conditions. generally the motion of the plumb bow boats however is much smoother than one with long overhangs, with much less rocking. Frankly I find the objections to plumb bows to be mostly silly. I have sailed a lot with both long overhangs and plumb bows, and while the overhangs may have aesthetic appeal, they don't have much practical value in my eyes.

Other than under some rating rules which pushed boats to look silly.
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Old 19-12-2014, 12:01   #8
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Re: Plumb Bows, Slab Sides, and Wet Decks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brob2 View Post
As large production builders [and even many (former?) offshore constructors like Najad] continually move towards sharper entries and ever more slab-sided forward sections I wonder how wet these boats sail upwind in moderate or choppy conditions. I haven't sailed aboard a boat designed post 2000 or so and am curious if these latest designs are notably wetter than the typical 1990 designs of the big production builders.

I realize no gentlemen will have the experience to answer such a question as they do not sail upwind but still hope one of the cads and scoundrels among us might entertain my query of curiosity.
I would be concerned about these designs down wind and taking green water. I would have to agree with whoever said they where not made for off shore. Consumer designed for, maybe fast and stylish, in some minds.
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Old 19-12-2014, 16:05   #9
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Re: Plumb Bows, Slab Sides, and Wet Decks

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I would be concerned about these designs down wind and taking green water. I would have to agree with whoever said they where not made for off shore. Consumer designed for, maybe fast and stylish, in some minds.
and for an example many would consider this sexy, but it must be wet as heck, even in the waters she's designed for...
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Old 19-12-2014, 16:12   #10
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Re: Plumb Bows, Slab Sides, and Wet Decks

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Originally Posted by El Pinguino View Post
There is a large body of opinion on this forum which suggests that these modern production boats aren't designed to go to sea.

They used to build merchant ships with that sort of profile up frd over a hundred years ago. These days they don't.
Guess you haven't seen the Zumwalt?
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Old 19-12-2014, 16:16   #11
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Re: Plumb Bows, Slab Sides, and Wet Decks

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Originally Posted by Delancey View Post
Guess you haven't seen the Zumwalt?


I would have guessed it was named the Rickover, because it looks like a sub!
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Old 19-12-2014, 16:43   #12
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Re: Plumb Bows, Slab Sides, and Wet Decks

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Guess you haven't seen the Zumwalt?
I want one. Lets scale it down to 10% stick a mast on her an some small missals. DDG Wet Dream.
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Old 19-12-2014, 17:08   #13
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Re: Plumb Bows, Slab Sides, and Wet Decks

IMHO plumb bows and fine entries translate into drier boats. I have sailed some as well as a good choice of older styled boats. The new shapes were always drier, and nicer to drive too.

BTW plumb bows, narrow entry minimum flare are not all that modern at all. Our boat was designed in 1967 and is by far one of the finest entries and plumbiest bows of the old era. And by far also one the driest designs we have sailed this far.

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Old 19-12-2014, 17:20   #14
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Re: Plumb Bows, Slab Sides, and Wet Decks

Violet.
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Old 19-12-2014, 17:24   #15
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Re: Plumb Bows, Slab Sides, and Wet Decks

Yes there is actually very few brand new ideas that have not in some way or form not been tried in the past.
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