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Alaska JD · 07-02-2010, 17:43

I think the Sceptre 41 is a good example of a pilot house SV were the pilot house seems to be an integrated aspect of the design. There aren't too many around, but as we get closer to buying a boat they are on the "short list"

**hpeer** · 07-02-2010, 17:50

When going through our recent boat search a pilot house was very high on our list of "must haves." Yet, in the end, we ended up with a 44' center cockpit with a soft dodger and bimini.

We were close to closing on a 43' aluminum pilot house schooner but things didn't work out with the survey and we walked.

We looked at several other pilot house boats in our price range and, although we saw some nice ones, they had other flaws that put them out. Last year there was a 46' steel Fisher that created some very tense moments and marriage counseling sessions last year. We finally put in a bid only to find out the Owner had accepted another offer the Friday before.

That boat had a bullet proof pilothouse but some we have seen have great gobs of glass. One boat had a too small PH and very thin glass. In another it would have been impossible to dock as you could not see over the bow.

However, the boat we are buying is significantly cheaper and we figure we can work out some form of full enclosure. The problem I see right now is that the primaries don't have full spin room with the bimini up. That will have to be addressed one way or another. I had diner with a couple a couple of years ago in Cow Head, NL. They had a full enclosure and it was down right lovely. I don't know how it worked when under way.

I think the difficult thing to work out will be adequate heat. Still cold is far better than wet AND cold. Brrrrrrrrrrr.........

BTW, our intended cruising ground includes the Canadian Marintimes. Fog.

eyschulman · 07-02-2010, 18:11

I had a freind who owned a 41 ft morgan out island(as in the old charter fleet type) with a center cockpit. he closed it up with fuul canvas and soft glass(plastic) and used it as a motor sailor and this worked well- As for heat in a mid ship with enclosure you get a good hot air diesel heating system with outlet not too far from hatch and let that warm air just flow up into enclosure. We used to do this with a simple hatch dogger on a J/44 worked well- the heater can't be whimpy.

buhrly · 07-02-2010, 20:16

So it seems that if one was to look for an older pilothouse bluewater sailor the list would be short.
We got....
Septre
Valiant(pricey)
Cooper
Islander(not sure on sailing or bluewater)
Some locally built boats(again not sure on sailing or bluewater)
Fiskars?
Others.....

eyschulman · 07-02-2010, 21:04

Relative to non PH yes but that still leaves a lot of boats if you have some time to look

jrd22 · 07-02-2010, 21:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by buhrly

So it seems that if one was to look for an older pilothouse bluewater sailor the list would be short.
We got....
Septre
Valiant(pricey)
Cooper
Islander(not sure on sailing or bluewater)
Some locally built boats(again not sure on sailing or bluewater)
Fiskars?
Others.....

You could add the Northsea 34 , the Truants, Brewer 40 (Three Seas), Gulf,Cape George 36, Amazon, Cabo Rico, Nauticat and probably some others that I've forgotten.
We've had two PH's and wouldn't think about anything else for the WA,BC,Alaska area. Our Brewer has been almost everywhere in the Pacific and I didn't see any complaints about it being hot in the tropics in any of the logs, shades on the side windows are a necessity though. It's pretty nice to be inside, warm and dry, when you have to motor all day and it's pouring rain or really cold. Having 360 degree visibility from the salon is pretty nice in an anchorage too. Although not racers, most of the boats in the lists above are excellent sailors and can turn in pretty impressive 24 hr. distances. The Fishers I would think would be pretty slow under sail, but have never been on one.

Bash · 07-02-2010, 22:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by buhrly

Is there a down side to the pilothouse boats? How come everyone doesn't have one?

The downside of a pilot house is that it transforms sailing into an indoor sport.

**hummingway** · 07-02-2010, 22:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrd22

Having 360 degree visibility from the salon is pretty nice in an anchorage too. .

Nice. I looked at a Fraser 41 that had its salon in the pilothouse. Gorgeous. My cooper its the kitchen and guest cabin that are up so I stand and look out the windows :-)

The Fraser almost sold me on story alone. One owner built 1980ish and he took his last sail at 92. I could feel his love for the boat. But in the end I liked the Cooper's layout and woodwork.

**hummingway** · 07-02-2010, 22:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bash

The downside of a pilot house is that it transforms sailing into an indoor sport.

The sailing is still done outside but the motoring can be done from inside and the living is done in a bigger brighter space ... at least in my limited experience.

gunslinger9729 · 08-02-2010, 12:59

Livia that looks great. Would you happen to have the number for the supplyer in Tacoma because I am getting a boat there and I want to see about adding a full encloser to my dodger and bimminee.

Livia · 08-02-2010, 13:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunslinger9729

Livia that looks great. Would you happen to have the number for the supplyer in Tacoma because I am getting a boat there and I want to see about adding a full encloser to my dodger and bimminee.

Thanks - we love the look and sturdiness.

Here is his website which has contact information:
Welcome to Iverson's Design

**Dockhead** · 08-02-2010, 13:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkleins

They can be hotter if you don't shade and ventilate them well. They take up the space of a rear berth in smaller sized boats. Some are designed so as to require the boom to be raised and therefore smaller main area. I can't think of a lot of other down sides.

I couldn't believe how much better I felt after a long passage with the indoor steering/watch station though, so I could go on and on about the good things.

Jim

Well, the main downside is that on a cruising boat less than 50 or 60 feet, you can't have both a nice open cockpit of decent size plus a pilot house. It is duplicated function. The pilot house cuts into the outdoor space, and most sailors prefer to be outdoors (where they can manage the sails) as long as conditions aren't too harsh. Plus, it is hard to see over the pilothouse, from whatever cockpit remains. On top of that, an indoor steering position on a sailboat has one big inherent disadvantage -- you cannot do anything with the sails from there. You have to run outside if you need to trim a sail. So you would mostly use the pilothouse while motoring (except in conditions where the wind is very steady and you're on a steady course).

I spent a couple of weeks on a very large sailboat (90 feet) which had both a pilothouse and two nice cockpits. That length of deck allows the designers that luxury. The pilothouse was fantastic in bad weather. But even on that big boat, the pilothouse compromised visibility from the outdoor steering position. We only used it for steering when we were motoring in bad weather.

So it's a tradeoff. But for extreme latitudes I suppose a very good tradeoff.

Our boat does not have a pilothouse, but has a full cockpit enclosure for bad weather. Although we have lines led into the cockpit, you can't really sail with the enclosure up. So we only put it up when we're tired of sailing in a cold rain -- sails come down, enclosure goes up, and we just rumble on to the next port.

jkleins · 08-02-2010, 15:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Well, the main downside is that on a cruising boat less than 50 or 60 feet, you can't have both a nice open cockpit of decent size plus a pilot house. It is duplicated function. The pilot house cuts into the outdoor space, and most sailors prefer to be outdoors (where they can manage the sails) as long as conditions aren't too harsh. Plus, it is hard to see over the pilothouse, from whatever cockpit remains. On top of that, an indoor steering position on a sailboat has one big inherent disadvantage -- you cannot do anything with the sails from there. You have to run outside if you need to trim a sail. So you would mostly use the pilothouse while motoring (except in conditions where the wind is very steady and you're on a steady course).

I spent a couple of weeks on a very large sailboat (90 feet) which had both a pilothouse and two nice cockpits. That length of deck allows the designers that luxury. The pilothouse was fantastic in bad weather. But even on that big boat, the pilothouse compromised visibility from the outdoor steering position. We only used it for steering when we were motoring in bad weather.

So it's a tradeoff. But for extreme latitudes I suppose a very good tradeoff.

Our boat does not have a pilothouse, but has a full cockpit enclosure for bad weather. Although we have lines led into the cockpit, you can't really sail with the enclosure up. So we only put it up when we're tired of sailing in a cold rain -- sails come down, enclosure goes up, and we just rumble on to the next port.

I heard that a lot when I was looking but my 38 footer has a very reasonable cockpit (not much smaller if any then the non-pilothouse version. I can see over the pilothouse from the wheel and my 5'4" wife can see under it (over it with the built in step. I think to make it shorter we did lose the rear stateroom that some boats in that size range have.
You do need to go outside to change the sails or trim but on most passages changing the sails or trim is not that frequent anyway and the pilothouse is just a step up into the cockpit. Not a whole lot different then when I used to sit on the top step on watch in my non-pilothouse boat.
We did see some of those problem in some boats we looked at but it not completely accurate to say it is a pilothouse problem as much as it is a problem with how some builders add a pilothouse to existing models. There are pilothouse boats available that don't suffer those fates.

Jim

CarlF · 08-02-2010, 15:44

Shannon should be on your list. Both the 38 Pilot (owned by the previous poster) and the Shannon 43 Pilot. They sail quite well and the build quality is excellent. Not cheap but Shannon's have always held their value.

Shannon has three different new pilothouse designs. They showed one at the last Annapolis Boat Show and are busy - unusual for a boat builder these days. Walter Schulz, Shannon's founder, provides commentary and design thoughts about his pilothouse boats on their web site. Good reading (and listening) for anyone interested in the type.

Shannon Yachts Premier Boatbuilders

Carl