Pilothouse Variations -- Boreal

[Polux]

Originally Posted by malbert73

...

So I'd conclude this is a fun fast coastal cruiser for day trips. Obviously you could sail it much further, but I wouldn't
,,

It may be the use you imagine you would do to it but the fact is that you would not buy one.

what defines what a boat is and is used for, is the boat program by the designer and builder and the use that the ones that buy the boat will give to them, not what you think or I think it will be appropriated to do.

The nautical press will normally express adequately the boat program and if it is adequate or not to that use will be expressed in sales or no sales.

The builder:
"RM Fora marine, Constructeur de voiliers de voyage..."

The nautical press:
"Le nouveau RM 12.70, idéal pour les candidats aux grands voyages"
Le nouveau RM 12.70, idéal pour les candidats aux grands voyages

The owners:
Le périple de Francesc Santanch Ã* bord de son RM1050 - RM Yachts

One of the world' best sail school and probably the oldest:
"Le RM 10.50 biquille est un bateau de voyage rapide.."
rm 10,50
(the 10.50 is similar but smaller)

There is nothing wrong in you judging the RM 12.70 as not the boat in what you would make a voyage but it is very wrong to generalise your opinion ( that this is just a fast fun coastal cruiser) when obviously the boat was not designed for that neither it is used mainly for that.

The RM is one of the brands that have been experiencing more success (1989) and has been growing fast on the last years, meaning that more and more sailors find this type of boats adequate for what they were designed for: fast voyage.

[malbert73]

Sure, polux- the usual. All you mention (or quote) is what the marketing folks say. And yes, the yachting press tends to help promote and market brands in case you weren't following the revenue stream between press and advertising.


In any case, can you respond to the specific reasons I mentioned for this boat being somewhat inadequate for voyaging? I'd love to hear your thoughts on having you or your gear at risk for being washed out of the transom, or being flung overboard by the mainsheet on a crash gybe. Also can't imagine how much that hull pounds upwind.



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[Matt Johnson]

Easy enough to add Dyneema netting across the transom to stop anyone/thing from going over the aft end. But I guess nobody has ever added accessories to address a concern they have.

[neilpride]

And its made of Plywood and epoxy, great for the ice.....

[malbert73]

Originally Posted by funjohnson

Easy enough to add Dyneema netting across the transom to stop anyone/thing from going over the aft end. But I guess nobody has ever added accessories to address a concern they have.

Good idea. Though won't address a wave slapping open transom and soaking helms person.


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[Matt Johnson]

Originally Posted by malbert73

Good idea. Though won't address a wave slapping open transom and soaking helms person.


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The only time that is an issue is during heavy weather. At that point, you're already soaked or being steered by autopilot.

Also, the buoyancy aft is huge.... you'll lift over most waves or speed along side them.

We spent three weeks huddled below deck in our Sabre (reverse transom boat) on our crossing from the Canaries. The waves weren't huge, but very confused and would slap the stern at odd angles sending fountains of water into the cockpit. It happened every few minutes, so the only option to stay dry was to be below deck. So, an enclosed stern really was no help.

We also got pooped bad. I was standing at the galley and heard a freight train sound rolling at us.... a second later a wave crashed into the cockpit and sent water jetting through the drop boards all the way to the v-berth (looked like the spray from a squirt gun). It took forever to fully drain the cockpit through two 2.5" scuppers in the floor. We had down flooding into the bilge through speaker holes and lazarette tops. Our new boat has an open aft letting any water out fast.

Matt

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by funjohnson

The only time that is an issue is during heavy weather. At that point, you're already soaked or being steered by autopilot.

Also, the buoyancy aft is huge.... you'll lift over most waves or speed along side them.

We spent three weeks huddled below deck in our Sabre (reverse transom boat) on our crossing from the Canaries. The waves weren't huge, but very confused and would slap the stern at odd angles sending fountains of water into the cockpit. It happened every few minutes, so the only option to stay dry was to be below deck. So, an enclosed stern really was no help.

We also got pooped bad. I was standing at the galley and heard a freight train sound rolling at us.... a second later a wave crashed into the cockpit and sent water jetting through the drop boards all the way to the v-berth (looked like the spray from a squirt gun). It took forever to fully drain the cockpit through two 2.5" scuppers in the floor. We had down flooding into the bilge through speaker holes and lazarette tops. Our new boat has an open aft letting any water out fast.

Matt

This kind of thing is one of several reasons why I prefer center cockpits on boats over about 45'.

[Matt Johnson]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

This kind of thing is one of several reasons why I prefer center cockpits on boats over about 45'.

I still dont like the feel of a center cockpit or aft cockpit with a high seating position due to aft cabin, but at least after 45' they don't cosmetically look as awkward. The issue is when you then add a pilothouse mid deck :thumbdown: Of course function over form, but there still has to be some eye appeal with this price range of yacht. With the Boreals design, you still have a smaller aft deck, but don't raise the cockpit to the nose bleed section.

Matt

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[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by funjohnson

I still dont like the feel of a center cockpit or aft cockpit with a high seating position due to aft cabin, but at least after 45' they don't cosmetically look as awkward. The issue is when you then add a pilothouse mid deck :thumbdown: Of course function over form, but there still has to be some eye appeal with this price range of yacht. With the Boreals design, you still have a smaller aft deck, but don't raise the cockpit to the nose bleed section.

How a pilot house and center cockpit could be harmonized is something I don't know. Maybe it's impossible.

Concerning "eye appeal" -- I don't actually care that much about this. Beauty for me really follows function. I want my next boat to have a somewhat rough workboat look on the outside anyway. But elegant lines are desirable -- but these do follow function, actually.

[Matt Johnson]

Length does help the pimple look of a pilothouse/center cockpit if you don't try making the engine room (under cockpit) standing height. Dijkstra and Hoek do this well, but then we're talking 70' +. Like anything, it's all in the eye of the beholder.... Both for feel and look.

Matt

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[Juho]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

How a pilot house and center cockpit could be harmonized is something I don't know. Maybe it's impossible.

Concerning "eye appeal" -- I don't actually care that much about this. Beauty for me really follows function. I want my next boat to have a somewhat rough workboat look on the outside anyway. But elegant lines are desirable -- but these do follow function, actually.

How about Nauticat 515.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by malbert73

Sure, polux- the usual. All you mention (or quote) is what the marketing folks say. And yes, the yachting press tends to help promote and market brands in case you weren't following the revenue stream between press and advertising.


In any case, can you respond to the specific reasons I mentioned for this boat being somewhat inadequate for voyaging? I'd love to hear your thoughts on having you or your gear at risk for being washed out of the transom, or being flung overboard by the mainsheet on a crash gybe. Also can't imagine how much that hull pounds upwind.
...

One of the quote was from Glenans, probably the best world's sailing school (The RM 10.50 is a fast voyage boat) and they have one on their fleet of many different sailboats.

Regarding being washed out of the transom or flung overboard by the mainsheet I believe that does not deserve an answer. I will only point out that most solo offshore sail racing boats, were efficiency and safety are paramount, have a similar transom and a similar mainsheet arrangement.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by neilpride

And its made of Plywood and epoxy, great for the ice.....

Optionally they can have an outside layer(s) of kevlar. Many owners opt for that. The epoxy is used to saturate the marine plywood and make it completely waterproof.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Juho

How about Nauticat 515.

That looks like one hell of a boat. I'm afraid I would need to sell something. I might look like the guy with the 640 FICO looking to borrow 7K?

[Polux]

Originally Posted by funjohnson

...

We spent three weeks huddled below deck in our Sabre (reverse transom boat) on our crossing from the Canaries. The waves weren't huge, but very confused and would slap the stern at odd angles sending fountains of water into the cockpit. It happened every few minutes, so the only option to stay dry was to be below deck. So, an enclosed stern really was no help.
...
Matt

Being the RM faster downwind the waves will slap the boat with much less force (if at all). In fact the boat will be sailing at almost wave speed doing long surfs. I have heard about that the opinion of many sailors with fast boats with open transom and the open transom is not a liability in what concerns that.

I have also the experience on my own sailboat. Downwind at almost wave speed waves crashing on the transom does not happen.