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Old 20-05-2016, 13:52   #241
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Re: Pilothouse Variations -- Boreal

[QUOTE=malbert73;2124781]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polux View Post
..

And how exactly do you know that? You ever sail my boat? (Hint I know your answer. It's because my boat isn't a new modern amazing better than all before design. And please insert some more pictures especially of downwind planing conditions)

I will agree on the boat that appears to be 50 feet long though. I probably can't keep up with that one....
I don't need to sail a Tartan 40 (older model) to be award of the general performance. The PHRF number gives a good idea of the boat potential.

No, the boat you saw on the movie and that you say you could not keep with (and very rightly) is not a 50fter and it is smaller than your boat. A 38ft. Yes it seems bigger, that's an advantage of beamy boats regarding the interior volume they offer
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Old 20-05-2016, 14:11   #242
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Re: Pilothouse Variations -- Boreal

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
That is indeed not what you've been saying, at least, not in any post of yours I saw. And I think you've specifically denied that there is any specific "sailing program" at all for people sailing in high latitudes and strong weather, which is different from sailing in the Med -- in fact I think you specifically recommended light cruiser racers for Alaska cruising, didn't you?
....
No you are confusing things. I never recommended a light cruiser to go sailing in high latitudes. The boats for sailing on high latitudes are steel, Aluminium or kevlar ones due to the risk of collision with ice and should offer protection regarding extreme cold (pilot house or deck saloon with a possibility to be steered from the inside). There are several production boats suited for it, from the Garcia, to the Allures or the OVNI.

Yes there are lots of light boats sailing on those high latitudes, making the Northwest passage or sailing in Antarctic waters but I would not recommend them for doing that.

It seems the confusion here is what you call high latitudes. If by High latitudes you are talking of waters without ice, UK waters, Dutch waters or Baltic on the sailing season, yes to sail there you don't need a specific design for high latitudes, just a good boat with a good stability and therefore able to face stronger weather. Lots of boats can do that and many of the boats you call med boats will not have any problem doing it (and do it, many are built on those countries).

Now regarding a contemporary beautiful fast boat, with around 16m, with the possibility to be steered from inside (with a good all around visibility from the chart table), a swing keel that will allow it a very small draft and a huge stability (increased by beam) I would look for something like this:

Sure, it is more than adequate to sail in high latitudes (by your definition) not the type of boat that I would recommend to go exploring Antarctic and Arctic waters, if that is what you want to do.

I don't have any interest in that: it is cold and there is not the possibility to have a nice swim everyday. Besides I like to live outdoors on a boat...but bot in freezing cold
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Old 20-05-2016, 16:04   #243
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Re: Pilothouse Variations -- Boreal

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Sure, it is more than adequate to sail in high latitudes (by your definition) not the type of boat that I would recommend to go exploring Antarctic and Arctic waters, if that is what you want to do.
Yes, if you want to go exploring Antarctic and Arctic it's best to do it in a boat that's proven itself capable of cruising in such places, such as the yacht in this stunning video.

https://vimeo.com/124858722
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Old 20-05-2016, 17:28   #244
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Re: Pilothouse Variations -- Boreal

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Yes, if you want to go exploring Antarctic and Arctic it's best to do it in a boat that's proven itself capable of cruising in such places, such as the yacht in this stunning video.
...
As I said, lots of boats, from mass production cruisers (like the jeanneau on the movie) to performance cruisers have done it, but that does not mean they are the more suitable boats to do that neither that I would recommend someone to do that on such a boat.

There are the possibility of missing a growler, specially if one is sailing fast and not motoring and most of all the discomfort to have to steer the boat all the time from the outside even when the weather turns nasty.

The movie is beautiful.

PS, you re already cruising this year? To where are you sailing?
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Old 20-05-2016, 20:44   #245
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Re: Pilothouse Variations -- Boreal

[QUOTE=Polux;2125294]
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Originally Posted by malbert73 View Post



I don't need to sail a Tartan 40 (older model) to be award of the general performance. The PHRF number gives a good idea of the boat potential.



No, the boat you saw on the movie and that you say you could not keep with (and very rightly) is not a 50fter and it is smaller than your boat. A 38ft. Yes it seems bigger, that's an advantage of beamy boats regarding the interior volume they offer

Nice try. Either you're joking or really stupid. That video is not of a cruising boat. Are you kidding me? Look at the helm station with the poor soaked skipper sitting on the coaming next to the winch with no backrest and a gaping open transom. Now that would be great for a daysailor. But if you just believe because they market it as a "fast cruiser" that it is comparable to a fully equipped offshore cruiser? Sorry buddy, lost all respect.

This is the bigger boat that I guessed nearer to 50. Please take your absurd opinions elsewhere. And stop speaking of what you clearly know nothing about, and that is true cruising yachts. Click image for larger version

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ID:	124659




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Old 21-05-2016, 06:57   #246
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Re: Pilothouse Variations -- Boreal

To clarify, the JPK seems like a fun little daysailor, protected water cruiser. Like every race oriented boat of course she can go further. I don't see a lot of payload capacity. I imagine it's very light displacement and deep draft which will limit its comfort and range.

It also doesn't have a pilothouse, so here's pulling the thread back to the original theme.

Has anyone out there tried one of these?

Click image for larger version

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Old 21-05-2016, 12:57   #247
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Re: Pilothouse Variations -- Boreal

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Originally Posted by malbert73 View Post
..., so here's pulling the thread back to the original theme.

Has anyone out there tried one of these?

Attachment 124670



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I think the whole concept of Teleport, and especially its small "pilothouse" concept, are wonderful.

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Old 21-05-2016, 13:31   #248
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Re: Pilothouse Variations -- Boreal

[QUOTE=malbert73;2125552]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polux View Post


Nice try. Either you're joking or really stupid. That video is not of a cruising boat. Are you kidding me? Look at the helm station with the poor soaked skipper sitting on the coaming next to the winch with no backrest and a gaping open transom. Now that would be great for a daysailor. But if you just believe because they market it as a "fast cruiser" that it is comparable to a fully equipped offshore cruiser? Sorry buddy, lost all respect.

This is the bigger boat that I guessed nearer to 50. Please take your absurd opinions elsewhere. And stop speaking of what you clearly know nothing about, and that is true cruising yachts. Attachment 124659
No, I m not stupid,the boat I posted the video was a 38ft boat, the other boat is a Pogo 50 but you should know that the performance on light airs has nothing to do with the size of the boat

Were you have a cruising Pogo with 40ft going fast with light winds and flat seas:

Regarding ignorance, it is not mine. The Pogo 50 is a cruising boat, not a race boat, not even a cruiser racer (the handicap is just too bad and they did not make any concessions regarding making a competitive racing design).

The boat is and was designed as a fast voyage boat. It has a great cruising interior:


The smaller Pogo the 10.50 was designed by Finot initially as his personal cruising boat. Recently Bob Perry, a very conservative designer made a review about the new version of that boat and said it would be the boat he would chose to cruise the Pacific.

You may like it or not (probably not) but that is irrelevant regarding what the boat is. The boat is what the sailors that bought them (and they are many) use the boat for and it is not for racing but for long range fast cruising, according what the boat was designed for.

The designers (Finot/Conq) say about that 50ft Pogo and for what it was designed for:

"Like its siblings in the Pogo range, the Pogo 50 is tailored for fast cruising : it is light, wide, and features a deep (lifting !) draft and generous sail area. Its speed and its seaworthiness put far, far away shores within reach ! Its shallow draft, once the keel is up, allows access to all little paradisiac coves. Its lean deck plan and large cockpit make it the ideal boat at the mooring.

Its interiors, like the other yachts from the Structures shipyard, remain simple and light. They are functional and usable at sea. Furthermore, they are adapted to the standing expected from a yacht of that size."


A racing boat?
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Old 21-05-2016, 13:42   #249
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Re: Pilothouse Variations -- Boreal

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Originally Posted by malbert73 View Post


Nice try. Either you're joking or really stupid. That video is not of a cruising boat. Are you kidding me? Look at the helm station with the poor soaked skipper sitting on the coaming next to the winch with no backrest and a gaping open transom. Now that would be great for a daysailor. But if you just believe because they market it as a "fast cruiser" that it is comparable to a fully equipped offshore cruiser? Sorry buddy, lost all respect.

Have you paid attention to where that video was taken?




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Old 21-05-2016, 14:01   #250
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Re: Pilothouse Variations -- Boreal

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Originally Posted by malbert73 View Post
To clarify, the JPK seems like a fun little daysailor, protected water cruiser. Like every race oriented boat of course she can go further. I don't see a lot of payload capacity. I imagine it's very light displacement and deep draft which will limit its comfort and range.

It also doesn't have a pilothouse, so here's pulling the thread back to the original theme.

Has anyone out there tried one of these?

The last I saw a boat designed with that was about 30 years ago

And it seems to go with your idea of the use and potential of modern cruising boats: The JPK 38 a daysailer?, a racing boat?

Again you don't know what you are talking about. JPK has on its line on pure racing boat ( a class 40) and several cruiser racers widely successful specially on offshore races. Recently one of them, a 10.80 made an incredible race on the Sydney Hobart arriving among big boats, but that is not for what the JPK 38 was built: that one is a pure cruising boat pointed to offshore sailing and to fast voyaging (as it is used by the owners - look at the movie).

According to the builder the JPK 38 was built with this in mind:

"JPK 38 FAST CRUISER: THE 38 FC JPK PROJECT WAS BORN FROM THE CUMULATIVE EXPERIENCES OF BLUE WATER RACING, CRUISING AND A DESIRE TO VOYAGE COMBINING THE PLEASURE OF SAILING, THE QUALITY OF LIFE ON BOARD AND THE SEAWORTHINESS."


And don't you think that this is one of those publicity statements made by someone that don't know what is talking about. The guy that says that, JPK himself has a huge number of Atlantic crossings, several made solo or duo and was part of the crew of that 10.80 that raised hell on the Sydney Hobart on very dificult conditions (as usual).

I believe you don't like it but calling it a daysailor? or a race boat? just shows that you not only don't like as you are unable to understand the boat concept and the many that like that type of boat as a fast voyage boat.
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Old 21-05-2016, 14:37   #251
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Re: Pilothouse Variations -- Boreal

Yes and no. Tried looking through a plexi dome on a cal 30 that sailed the pacific. Dome was not high enough to allow full head room and thus only came up to my nose. Could only see a sliver of the deck area. It was easier to duck down and turn in order to get a 360 view of things rather than twist my head while it was still in the dome. Bottom line: not enough height to get a meaningful view.
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Old 21-05-2016, 14:44   #252
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Re: Pilothouse Variations -- Boreal

Dinky keel, twin rudders, light displacement, and shallow cockpit makes for a rough and potentially dangerous ride if used for long distance cruising. Doable but risky. One hits a lot of stuff out there in the oceans. Conservative sailors would want the keel to be an extension of the hull, not some phallic symbol hanging off the bottom.
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Old 21-05-2016, 16:39   #253
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Re: Pilothouse Variations -- Boreal

Quote:
Originally Posted by malbert73 View Post
To clarify, the JPK seems like a fun little daysailor, protected water cruiser. Like every race oriented boat of course she can go further. I don't see a lot of payload capacity. I imagine it's very light displacement and deep draft which will limit its comfort and range.

It also doesn't have a pilothouse, so here's pulling the thread back to the original theme.

Has anyone out there tried one of these?

Attachment 124670



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Yep, had two domes on my last boat. Worked perfectly for a fantastic 360 degree view. They could steam up if you sat there for hours. But it wasnt a big problem, even in Antarctica.

I had one on my sliding hatch, then when I built the hard dodger I put one in the top of the dodger at just the right spot so I could see out while standing in the companionway with the door closed and the sliding hatch slid forward.

It could also be used from under the dodger with the companionway shut. Saved getting wet when you wanted to look for ice.

I plan to stick one on the pilothouse roof of the new boat. So much better than windows



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Old 21-05-2016, 19:11   #254
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Re: Pilothouse Variations -- Boreal

If you already have a pilothouse, why add a dome?
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Old 21-05-2016, 19:46   #255
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Re: Pilothouse Variations -- Boreal

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If you already have a pilothouse, why add a dome?
Because the veiw from the dome is significantly better than the veiw out the windows. It is also higher, so I can see over the dinghy that will be lashed down fwd of the mast. It also gives headroom in an otherwise low pilothouse.

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