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Old 09-12-2008, 23:13   #1
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Pilot House Vs Motor Sailor

Hi all, I was curious if any of our knowledgeable sea salts really know the true difference between a Pilot House and Motor Sailor? I'm guessing that the Motor Sailor has a larger fuel capacity and full keel. While the Pilot house's main feature is that it will have a duel helm for those all season passages.

Am I right?? Am I missing any major features?? Also, can anyone recommend a current Motor Sailor/Pilot House manufacturer?? They seem to have what I want for the long term/haul (Aside from getting a cat).

Thanks for everyone's help!!!!
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Old 09-12-2008, 23:42   #2
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Motor sailer's do have a larger fuel supply but that's due to the larger motor they have. The hull design is different between the two. The motor sailer is designed more for planing under power which can exceed the hull speed of a standard sailing hull.

Look at the McGregors for instance.

If you want to sail most of the time, buy a pilothouse. If you plan to motor most of time by a motor sailer.

Motor sailer's are slower sailing then the counter part, they are dragging a larger fixed prop and usually have more displacement and wetted area.
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Old 10-12-2008, 04:11   #3
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Old 10-12-2008, 04:37   #4
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We have a Sceptre 41, which is a low-profile pilothouse design. The builder, Sceptre Marine in Richmond, BC, is still in business, and they will build you a new boat if you want, but mostly they now do service and brokerage. Awhile back the mold for the Sceptres was modified to add a sugar scoop, and the newer boats like this are Sceptre 43s. The interiors vary widely. Ours has the inside steering station, but not all do. We, like most Sceptre owners, really like our boat and recommend them highly.
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Old 10-12-2008, 04:49   #5
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You can see a really good illustration of the differences between the Pilot House and Motor Sailor at Nordhavn.com.

They have specs and line drawings for all of their boats. They just came out with a 56MS. You can compare it the 55 and 60 which are pilothouse boats.
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Old 10-12-2008, 07:41   #6
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I think it's a waste of time to even try to draw a distinction. The line can be blurred in so many ways. My definition of a motor sailer is any boat with inside steering. I can't see why what you call a boat is important any in this case. There are light, modern boats with inside steering that I call motor sailers and there are heavy, tank laden tubs with inside steering that I also think should be called motor sailers. Check the next issue of water sailing">BLUE WATER SAILING if you want to se an example of a new heavy displacement motor sailer that I designed. I think this one fits the typical notion of what a ms should be. However my 7'10" beam Container Cruiser was also conceived as a ms and I can't imagine two boats further apart in design philosophies.
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Old 10-12-2008, 08:19   #7
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Bob,
Did you design the container sailor that was at the Annapolis boat show? I thought that was a very clever design.
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Old 10-12-2008, 10:39   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadow View Post
Hi all, I was curious if any of our knowledgeable sea salts really know the true difference between a Pilot House and Motor Sailor? I'm guessing that the Motor Sailor has a larger fuel capacity and full keel. While the Pilot house's main feature is that it will have a duel helm for those all season passages.

Am I right?? Am I missing any major features?? Also, can anyone recommend a current Motor Sailor/Pilot House manufacturer?? They seem to have what I want for the long term/haul (Aside from getting a cat).

Thanks for everyone's help!!!!
Have you considered a custom designer? The reason why I ask is a designer often has several builders he's worked with with. Some of those builders produce consistently good results wich the designer as really been impressed with. I like the pilothouse designs of Ted Brewer and Dudley Dix.
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Old 10-12-2008, 10:51   #9
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Shannon has two new pilot house designs building now - the "52 Global" and "53 HPS". The former is for Bob Bitchin of Latitudes and Attitudes. Both monohull designs have twin engines.

Shannon Yachts Premier Boatbuilders

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Old 10-12-2008, 10:52   #10
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Shadow, having previously owned a Cartwright 36 pilohouse cutter I can tell you that there are tremedous advantages to an inside steering station if you are planning offshore passages, or just sailing in northern latitudes:

1. A warm and comfortable crew are an alert crew.
2. You can keep your paper charts, guidebooks and yes, even chartplotters out of the elements for much greater utility/longevity.
3. A wheel autopilot can have the reliability of below decks mounted units at much less expense (and much easier maintenance) because it is belowdecks.
4. In truly heavy going you are much less apt to suffer injury from seas breaking over the cockpit.

Brad
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Old 10-12-2008, 14:10   #11
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motorsailer versus pilothouse

check out Northshore Yacht UK and their Southerly line of sailboats.
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Old 10-12-2008, 14:43   #12
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NAUTICAT have probably been making pilothouse yachts for longer than anybody, we have been very happy with our NC44 pilothouse motorsailor, which by the way will be up for sale in the New Year
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Old 10-12-2008, 15:47   #13
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Motor sailer?

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Originally Posted by bob perry View Post
I think it's a waste of time to even try to draw a distinction. The line can be blurred in so many ways. My definition of a motor sailer is any boat with inside steering. I can't see why what you call a boat is important any in this case. There are light, modern boats with inside steering that I call motor sailers and there are heavy, tank laden tubs with inside steering that I also think should be called motor sailers. Check the next issue of BLUE WATER SAILING if you want to se an example of a new heavy displacement motor sailer that I designed. I think this one fits the typical notion of what a ms should be. However my 7'10" beam Container Cruiser was also conceived as a ms and I can't imagine two boats further apart in design philosophies.
Would you consider a boat with inside steering and no motor, a motor sailer? Or a boat with inside steering and a tiny motor a motor sailer? One of my 36 footers has a 20hp diesel and inside steering. Would you consider that boat a motor sailer and a similar sized boat with no inside steering and a 50 HP motor not a motor sailer? A wheelhouse and inside steering is not a motor.Some folks can't tell the difference between a wheelhouse and a motor.Sad! A wheelhouse doesn't make the boat a motor sailer. It just makes the skipper intellegent.
A reasonably sized wheelhouse has less windage than a crew on deck.
I just had a great sail up Georgia Strait last night. Wind SE 30 to 40 knots, , periods of rain, cold. I set the windvane and poled out the jib soon after leaving port, then spent the rest of the trip down below, listening to the radio, with the wood stove pumping out the heat.I felt like a first class passenger. What a contrast to my last boat ,which would have had me sitting foolishly in the open cockput, exposed to the rain, wind and spray, fighting the helm, looking like a complete idiot. Totally bad seamanship. I'm embarassed that it took me so long to figure it out. I'm slightly consoled by the thought of how many will never figure it out.
Brent
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Old 10-12-2008, 16:12   #14
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Thanks everyone for excellent input!! I will also be checking all of the links provided!! Everyone gave me a much better and clearer view of the said model types. Cheers, and please keep them coming in.
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Old 10-12-2008, 16:22   #15
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Uh, Guys... Having an inside steering station has nothing what-so-ever to do with motorsailers. Lots of yachts have inside stations, but they're not labeled "motorsailer". Thats just having a "Pilothouse". I'm sorry to disagree with Bob Perry, who happens to be one of the worlds best yacht designers, I kid you not! In his book "Motor Sailing", Dag Pike writes; " A motorsailer must have the ability to proceed under sail or motor in rough conditions. In this it differs from the auxiliary sailing yacht, where the motor is mainly used for manoevring in harbour or in calm conditions: the low powered engine with it's single propeller tend to run out of steam quite quickly in rough conditions, and it cannot always make progress to windward in a fresh breeze". The other end of the spectrum is the Motor Cruiser with steadying sails (not much good for actually driving the boat). IMHO, Chris
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