Pilot House Vs Motor Sailor - Page 4

Cadence · 15-12-2008, 09:48

Bob,

The stew and soup, was a great analogy.

Cadence · 15-12-2008, 10:11

Bob,

Impressive back ground. I'd love to sit down and pick your brain. I did meet Nils Lucander at one point but only casually.

Keep up the input.

bob perry · 15-12-2008, 10:20

Cadence:
You met Nils.
Ok, I won't hold that against you.
Stop by my office some time and we'll chat.
I'll tell you my Nils Lucander story. It's very funny.

James S · 15-12-2008, 11:23

Chris
Here's some more eye candy for you....HC refers to it as a Pilothouse 48.

Cadence · 15-12-2008, 12:01

Bob,

I'm not sure this is the forum to get back to you.

I'd love to hear your Nils story. I'm sure you were friends although it would appear your designs were quite different.

I only met him standing on the bottom of a 74 ft. trawler of his design before turning. Twin keel which seemed to be his forte.

Since I'm in Charleston SC, I don' think stopping by your office is in the cards.

If you get a fee moment, send the story to roger.moren@comcast.net . I don't want to bug you at RHP.

bob perry · 15-12-2008, 14:56

Cad;
Nils and I were not friends. He was a strange guy and it seeme he resented me quite a bit. We did not share many design theories. That's a nice way to put it.

Cadence · 15-12-2008, 17:54

Bob,

I didn't mean to strike a sore note. Re: Nils. I had heard he was strange. Don't like speaking ill of the dead.

For what's worth, the guy that built and owned the 74' trawler, Miss Amy, didn't like her. When dragging and making a turn the high side prop. would cavitate. After all his work and investment he droped her like a hot rock. It must have really made turning hard. Might have been OK not dragging?

I built 48' Robert's. In spite of the hard chines it was easily driven. Almost think it could have been a motor sailer back to the stew and soup.

shadow · 15-12-2008, 15:58

GREAT contributions everyone!! I love those shots of various pilothouse yachts!! Keep them coming and thanks again!!!

Joli · 15-12-2008, 16:08

Is a pilot house boat is really needed anymore, you can plug in a remote for the auto pretty much anywhere you want.

Not sure about his whole soup/stew debate but who gets there hair cut on a boat?

Christian Van H · 15-12-2008, 16:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joli

Is a pilot house boat is really needed anymore, you can plug in a remote for the auto pretty much anywhere you want.

Not sure about his whole soup/stew debate but who gets there hair cut on a boat?

Well, ya have to be able to see out of the boat to pilot it. A pilot house works well for this... and my wife cuts my hair on my boat. It helps not to have much...

HERE'S MORE PICS!!!

bob perry · 16-12-2008, 10:12

Cad:
I'll tell my Nils story here. It's funny and I diod not really like the guy at all. I sold a design to a one time client of his and after the guy started building the boat Nils would call him frequently to remind him of what a mistake he had made going with a perry design. The boat turned out fabulous and the owner loved it.

Nils took exception to my specific use of numbers to analyze designs. He wrote a short article on design claiming that instead of using those numbers he "talked to the water melecules". I did not make that up.

I was at the Seattle Boat Show and noticed that Nils was sharing a display space with another designer of similar skill level. Nils was not in his booth but there on the floor was a red bucket filled with water. In the bucket was a short length of foil shape hung on a piece of coat hanger. Don't ask me why.

My usually quiet and reserved 6'6" 320 lb. helper Paul for some reason goit down on all fours grabbed the wire holding the foil and began shaking it in the water saying "Speak to me! Speak to me damn it!" In our little workld it was quite funny. Paul stood up and when we turned around there was Nils scowling at us.
Maybe this is just yacht designer humor. I am easily entertained.

Cadence · 16-12-2008, 13:07

Bob,

Surely you jest. I know a lot of good designs have come from a good eye and experience. My knowledge of the math, is Simpsons rules. Calculus wasn't my forte. Water molecules is a new one on me.

Thanks for sharing, you provided the laugh for today.

Cadence

Pelagic · 16-12-2008, 13:19

Funny story Bob and we all have our muses but I wonder… are you sure there was only water in that bucket?

Back to the original question, I think the intent of the designer or client will give the boat its moniker.

If the intent is to motor sail (fuel efficiently) rhumb line courses and sail only when the wind and weather is optimum, then the design emphasis will be more on creature comforts and a maintainable engine room. I would call that a motor sailor and they are generally longer to accommodate the E.R

If there is just the simple desire to fuse an inside steering and piloting station into a given sail form, then to me it is more of a pilot house sailboat.

I call mine a motor sailor

James S · 16-12-2008, 13:24

nice looking boat

anotherT34C · 16-12-2008, 14:47

"When does a motor-sailor become a pilot-house", is the kind of question that ties certain philosophers into knots for decades.

It's sort of like asking "when is a man considered bald?", or *gulp* "when is a fetus considered a person?".

For those interested it's called epistemicism, or the philosophy of vagueness. *shrug* The only thing interesting there (IMO) is that some people think they can define the individual hair loss that makes a man bald, and manage to get tenure writing about it.

Personally, I prefer not to argue over definitions. I'm content to let the resident design expert (Bob) define the terms for me.

15-12-2008, 11:23	#4
James S Registered User Join Date: May 2008 Location: I live in Yemen...the boats in Lebenon Boat: 1978 CT48 Arctic Lady Posts: 1,183	Chris Here's some more eye candy for you....HC refers to it as a Pilothouse 48. Attached Thumbnails __________________ James S/V Arctic Lady

16-12-2008, 13:19	#13
Pelagic Registered User Join Date: Oct 2007 Boat: Van Helleman Schooner 65ft StarGazer Posts: 1,509	Funny story Bob and we all have our muses but I wonder… are you sure there was only water in that bucket? Back to the original question, I think the intent of the designer or client will give the boat its moniker. If the intent is to motor sail (fuel efficiently) rhumb line courses and sail only when the wind and weather is optimum, then the design emphasis will be more on creature comforts and a maintainable engine room. I would call that a motor sailor and they are generally longer to accommodate the E.R If there is just the simple desire to fuse an inside steering and piloting station into a given sail form, then to me it is more of a pilot house sailboat. I call mine a motor sailor Attached Thumbnails

16-12-2008, 13:24	#14
James S Registered User Join Date: May 2008 Location: I live in Yemen...the boats in Lebenon Boat: 1978 CT48 Arctic Lady Posts: 1,183	nice looking boat __________________ James S/V Arctic Lady

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15-12-2008, 09:48	#1
Cadence Registered User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: SC Boat: None Posts: 153	Bob, The stew and soup, was a great analogy.

15-12-2008, 10:11	#2
Cadence Registered User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: SC Boat: None Posts: 153	Bob, Impressive back ground. I'd love to sit down and pick your brain. I did meet Nils Lucander at one point but only casually. Keep up the input.

15-12-2008, 10:20	#3
bob perry Commercial Vendor Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 259	Cadence: You met Nils. Ok, I won't hold that against you. Stop by my office some time and we'll chat. I'll tell you my Nils Lucander story. It's very funny.

15-12-2008, 12:01	#5
Cadence Registered User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: SC Boat: None Posts: 153	Bob, I'm not sure this is the forum to get back to you. I'd love to hear your Nils story. I'm sure you were friends although it would appear your designs were quite different. I only met him standing on the bottom of a 74 ft. trawler of his design before turning. Twin keel which seemed to be his forte. Since I'm in Charleston SC, I don' think stopping by your office is in the cards. If you get a fee moment, send the story to roger.moren@comcast.net . I don't want to bug you at RHP.

15-12-2008, 14:56	#6
bob perry Commercial Vendor Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 259	Cad; Nils and I were not friends. He was a strange guy and it seeme he resented me quite a bit. We did not share many design theories. That's a nice way to put it.

15-12-2008, 17:54	#7
Cadence Registered User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: SC Boat: None Posts: 153	Bob, I didn't mean to strike a sore note. Re: Nils. I had heard he was strange. Don't like speaking ill of the dead. For what's worth, the guy that built and owned the 74' trawler, Miss Amy, didn't like her. When dragging and making a turn the high side prop. would cavitate. After all his work and investment he droped her like a hot rock. It must have really made turning hard. Might have been OK not dragging? I built 48' Robert's. In spite of the hard chines it was easily driven. Almost think it could have been a motor sailer back to the stew and soup.

15-12-2008, 15:58	#8
shadow Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 527	GREAT contributions everyone!! I love those shots of various pilothouse yachts!! Keep them coming and thanks again!!!

15-12-2008, 16:08	#9
Joli Registered User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,587	Is a pilot house boat is really needed anymore, you can plug in a remote for the auto pretty much anywhere you want. Not sure about his whole soup/stew debate but who gets there hair cut on a boat?

16-12-2008, 10:12	#11
bob perry Commercial Vendor Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 259	Cad: I'll tell my Nils story here. It's funny and I diod not really like the guy at all. I sold a design to a one time client of his and after the guy started building the boat Nils would call him frequently to remind him of what a mistake he had made going with a perry design. The boat turned out fabulous and the owner loved it. Nils took exception to my specific use of numbers to analyze designs. He wrote a short article on design claiming that instead of using those numbers he "talked to the water melecules". I did not make that up. I was at the Seattle Boat Show and noticed that Nils was sharing a display space with another designer of similar skill level. Nils was not in his booth but there on the floor was a red bucket filled with water. In the bucket was a short length of foil shape hung on a piece of coat hanger. Don't ask me why. My usually quiet and reserved 6'6" 320 lb. helper Paul for some reason goit down on all fours grabbed the wire holding the foil and began shaking it in the water saying "Speak to me! Speak to me damn it!" In our little workld it was quite funny. Paul stood up and when we turned around there was Nils scowling at us. Maybe this is just yacht designer humor. I am easily entertained.

16-12-2008, 13:07	#12
Cadence Registered User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: SC Boat: None Posts: 153	Bob, Surely you jest. I know a lot of good designs have come from a good eye and experience. My knowledge of the math, is Simpsons rules. Calculus wasn't my forte. Water molecules is a new one on me. Thanks for sharing, you provided the laugh for today. Cadence

16-12-2008, 14:47	#15
anotherT34C Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: NY Boat: Tartan 34c -Confidence Posts: 527	"When does a motor-sailor become a pilot-house", is the kind of question that ties certain philosophers into knots for decades. It's sort of like asking "when is a man considered bald?", or gulp "when is a fetus considered a person?". For those interested it's called epistemicism, or the philosophy of vagueness. shrug The only thing interesting there (IMO) is that some people think they can define the individual hair loss that makes a man bald, and manage to get tenure writing about it. Personally, I prefer not to argue over definitions. I'm content to let the resident design expert (Bob) define the terms for me.