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Old 10-12-2008, 23:58   #16
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Semantics

For a while there was a big argument about 'when' an auxiliary became a motorsailer - the 60/40 (percentage time sailing/motoring), the 80/20, etc. Then arguments were whether it had a protected steerage (like, for example, most of the large bulk freight windjammers which had wheelhouses.)

Some sailors prefer to look down their noses at motorsailers, and use the term pejoratively. Others use different criteria for applying it.

The 'Pilothouse' of today is more usually a 'raised-deck cabin' of a different time, which was the 'doghouse cabin' or 'deck cabin' of yet another period. It's a portion of the cabin whose sole is higher, giving a better view from within the protection of the cabin, and may or may not include an inside steering station.

A motorsailer is any sailboat in which motoring can reach or exceed theoretical hull speed, but more commonly it's any boat which usually uses its motor to assist, or instead of, sail propulsion.

The two terms are often used interchangeably. Though that may be a little loose usage for some people, most listeners understand what is meant so it's good usage.
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Old 11-12-2008, 06:22   #17
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Christian, virtually no modern sailboat is powered with an auxilliary that is only sufficient to maneuver the boat in harbour in calm conditions. Indeed, if the ability to proceed under motor in rough conditions is the sole point of distinction for motorsailers, then most modern sailboats are motorsailers.

I think that Bob Perry's point is that we are getting into largely semantical differences in the context of modern yachts - since there are small trawlers with very small diesels and sailboats with very large ones, then the principle distinguishing feature is an inside steering station. There are motorsailers that are oriented more towards cruising under power than sail and others that are oriented more towards sail than power. As a result, as Bob says, in attempting a definition "the line can be blurred in so many ways."

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Old 11-12-2008, 08:36   #18
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I think Brad gets it. Exactly, if we went back to the 1930's just about every modern cruising boat would be considered a MS.

They are all just "boats" to me and they are all different in their own ways. It's a bit like trying to determine at exactly what point does stew become soup.
" That's a thick soup."
"No, that's a thin stew."

I am extremnely comfortable with my own flexible definition of MS. I hope you are all as equally comfortable with your own. If you want me to design a MS for you I would be very content to adopt your definition for the duration of the design project.

And yes, I did design the Far Harbor 39 Container Cruiser and BTW the owner always considered it a MS despite the fact that it would not fit some of the definitions I had read here.

Maybe motor sailer is more a state of mind.
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Old 11-12-2008, 09:35   #19
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Having owned sailboats with inside steering stations for a long time I have come to the conclusion that, like Bob has said, it is mainly semantics. "Motorsailor" had a stigma to it that builders wanted to get away from when they designed a new boat with inside steering, so they called it a "Pilothouse". That apparently didn't quite give them the distance they were looking for so the newer designs are now "Deck Salons". Whatever. I refer to my Brewer as a pilothouse because that's what Ted called it and it's generally understood by everyone that that means a sailboat with inside steering.

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Old 11-12-2008, 09:59   #20
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No, I tell you. That is clam stew.
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Old 11-12-2008, 10:14   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob perry View Post
No, I tell you. That is clam stew.
I thought we were making Gumbo!
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Old 11-12-2008, 10:25   #22
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When I hear "motor sailor" I think it has to do with how the boat is meant to be used....when I hear "Pilot house" I think its regarding the structural or physical configuration or lay-out...like center or aft cockpit.

When I hear “Clam” It’s always chowder!
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Old 11-12-2008, 10:38   #23
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Jimmy:
I think that was very well put. I like it. I may use it.
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Old 11-12-2008, 10:43   #24
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It's yours.
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Old 11-12-2008, 10:52   #25
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I actually like the term "clam stew" more than "deck salon", I've always thought that sounded like they were tying to cover up something. So now I guess I have a Brewer 40 Clamstew, eh?

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Old 11-12-2008, 15:10   #26
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Has anyone here ever seen a "Deck Salon" with inside steering?
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Old 11-12-2008, 15:44   #27
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Quick google search

Came up with the CR 400 Deck Salon, which makes me wonder what the heck a CR is...
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Old 11-12-2008, 16:19   #28
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You got me! Thats a first...I have never seen a "Deck Salon" with inside steering, and I like the "CR", whatever it is...
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Old 11-12-2008, 16:32   #29
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Charles Rutgersson Yachts. Not bad, not bad at all. Except the website, which is arguing with my browser.
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Old 11-12-2008, 17:52   #30
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The Discovery 55 is a deck salon with an inside helm seat. No wheel but an autopilot remote. It was at Annapolis this year.

http://www.discoveryyachts.co.uk/fil...tion_large.jpg

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