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Old 09-01-2014, 18:34   #16
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Boat: Wauquiez Pretorien 35
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Re: Performance Cruisers 43-48ft, Center Cockpit?

Thank you for the feedback, all. I've added the Oyster 48, Kaufman, and Saga on my list of boats to crawl around and look at.

We actually looked at the Norseman when we were in LA (we have driven 4500 miles in the last month driving up and down the west coast looking at boats) but we have decided that we don't want the can of worms that comes with a teak deck, and I believe the Norsemans aren't glass underneath either.

Good friends of ours cruised and lived aboard a Hylas 47 for years and loved it. Beautiful boat and she sailed well. The 44 we looked at in San Diego was in wonderful condition and had she not felt so small inside (plus a couple of other things) we probably would have made an offer on her. I have read since then that they are fairly wet upwind.

We also cruised with a couple on a Liberty 458 and I remember the first time I went down below, I was extremely impressed with the layout and interior. The freeboard is a bit high for my taste, but not at all a dealbreaker. There were a couple on the market - one sold and the other looks very tired.

At the boat show in Auckland, we crawled around on some newer Hanses. Within our price range though, I don't think we will be able to accomplish most of our "wants".

We looked at a Moody 42 and a Moody 47, but the first one already had an offer and the particular 47 we were on just wasn't the right boat for us (and had teak decks). Based on the Moody's I've been on, I really think Bill Dixon got the layouts right with his size constraints. And the later models 2000'ish have lovely joinery.

After just 6 months of cruising, we knew that we could do this for the long term. So now we hope to do it with a kid in the future. And now we both have very specific ideas of what would fit our preferences. Of course, realistically, everyone looking for their "perfect" boat that checks all their wants end up having to compromise somewhere if they are shopping to a budget.

The reality of cruising, is that you really can do it on just about anything, it just matters how much discomfort and risk you are willing to take on. You wouldn't believe some of the boats we saw in remote places, that had sailed 10's of thousands of miles to get that I wouldn't have even cruised locally. But people do it all the time. I just want to be comfortable. Before I went cruising, I made a lot of my boat decisions based on how things would be when we were underway. My big lesson was that crusing is 95% at anchor and 5% underway so for the next boat I will definitely be paying attention to creature comforts more. Here are a few of our wants:
  • Decent light air performance
  • Newer than 1980
  • A non-Vberth stateroom
  • Space for a washer install (will be living on the boat on land for 5 years and the thought of hauling an infant + laundry every other day is one I would like to avoid)
  • No teak decks
  • Ample freezer for pre-food prep on long passages
  • A solent stay (although we will put this on any boat that we can fit it)
  • A cockpit that can be fully enclosable
  • A separate shower
  • No centerboards or shoal drafts

Of course bearing in mind, my husband's "list" is a little bit different than mine. He would love to have a below-deck windlass and a forward sail locker.


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Old 10-01-2014, 07:58   #17
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Massachussetts
Boat: Cheoy Lee 47 CC
Posts: 659
Re: Performance Cruisers 43-48ft, Center Cockpit?

Adding kids to the equation definitely is a game changer, which is why it took us 3 years to find the right boat. You have a bigger boat budget than we did so you have much more latitude in choices, but still it's difficult when you have a definite idea of what your needs are. Most were built to general needs when your will be more specific.
My wife had a list of must haves, as well as my list, both of which were formed by years of boat owning experience. We never thought we'd be looking at CC boats but the more we looked the more sense it made. Your statement about 95% anchoring and 5% sailing puts it in perspective and helps better define the true needs.
So many good boats, so many choices to make, I'm sure you'll find the right one. In this case patience is truly a virtue.
Good Luck, I hope you let us all know what you finally decide on and why.

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Old 06-02-2014, 00:21   #18
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Re: Performance Cruisers 43-48ft, Center Cockpit?

Have you thought of a Warwick 44?
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Old 07-02-2014, 08:07   #19
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Location: Penobscot Bay, Maine
Boat: Tayana 47
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Re: Performance Cruisers 43-48ft, Center Cockpit?

I recently was in the position of wanting to find a good quality center cockpit boat for cruising and didn't want a real performance dog. We found a Tayana 47 that we liked and bought it. I like the looks, layout, and ruggedness but can't say how I'll like the sailing performance yet because I've barely sailed it. Don't think Bob Perry designed too many bad ones though so I'm optimistic. SA/D is supposedly only 15.67 and DL is about 240 so it's not going to be a real performer in light air, but it's what we were looking for in that respect. Really nice interior layouts including good storage and separate shower stalls (we'll use one for a wet locker) and decent sized cockpit and bulwarks for a secure feeling on deck when heeled. Another one to consider....
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Old 07-02-2014, 08:24   #20
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Re: Performance Cruisers 43-48ft, Center Cockpit?

Stevens 47?
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
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Old 07-02-2014, 10:15   #21

Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Currently Channel Islands
Boat: Cheoy Lee 66 M/Y & Cambria 44 S/V - Captain Lurssen 145
Posts: 43
Re: Performance Cruisers 43-48ft, Center Cockpit?

Originally Posted by Laulena3 View Post
Hi Everyone,

Many years lurking, first time posting here.

My husband and I just returned from a three year cruise across the South Pacific in our Wauquiez Pretorien 35. We are now back stateside on the west coast and are looking for our next boat that we will take offshore cruising again - hopefully with a child. I would be grateful for input on sailing performance of some of the boats we are considering. We were really happy to have done our cruise in a boat that could sail reasonably well in light air and are hoping to find the same in our next home.

We are looking for a performance cruiser sloop/cutter with a SA/D ratio of at least 15+. One thing I have noticed is that it is hard to get finite data on what the actual displacement weights are, just from looking at Yachtworld and Sailboatdata / PHRF ratings. I was hoping some of you could weigh in (no pun intended!)

Here are a few of the boats we are considering. We are looking at boats less than $250k. Thoughts?

Moody 42, 44, 46, 47
Liberty 45
Freedom 45
Hylas 44 (looked at one - funky aft berth and felt small for a 44), 47,49
Norseman 447 CC
McIntosh/MacIntosh 47 (Sailboatdata says displacement of 30k - but I thought these were teak forests?)
Taswell 43
Bristol 44
Tartan 4600

I would encourage you to take a look at a Cambria although not a center cockpit. I used to have a Bristol 47.7 and by god she was as slow as Christmas.

My Cambria 44 is built beautifully and very low on maintenance. She'll do 200 mile days regularly. It was Superman's (Christopher Reeves) vessel of choice as well. It's a boat really worth considering. As a former Bristol CC owner I will say I miss nothing about her. She was a great boat and very well built but I realized after some years I really did want some speed.

All cambrias were built with a solid layup schedule and the decks are dcell so you can drive a fastner right through the deck without the worry you typically have with Balsa.

I've singled handed her in the Newport to Bemuda race and taken her across the pond single handed without much hassle.

If you're really really sticking to your list I would vote on the Hylas. I've never seen a Bristol 44 center cockpit. the B Pedrick is 44 but its aft cockpit. They built a 43.3 and 45.5 I went with the 47.7 because I wanted a good size boom boom room. You could pick up any of those Bristols with your budget. I'd say with the 47.7 you'd be stretching it.

Also despite what many people say I would not rule out newer production vessels which are typically more accommodating below. As long as you're a pretty decent sailor you can survive foul weather in them. I had a good friend who rounded cape horn in a 45ft Hunter which not to disparage anyone else's opinion of production vessels build quality I know for a fact he sailed without incident in 60+ knot winds and 40+ foot rollers timed apart pretty minimally.
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Old 07-02-2014, 10:59   #22

Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Currently Channel Islands
Boat: Cheoy Lee 66 M/Y & Cambria 44 S/V - Captain Lurssen 145
Posts: 43
Re: Performance Cruisers 43-48ft, Center Cockpit?

One other vessel to add to your list is the Mason 44, they have one nicest the aft cabins I've seen in a aft cockpit. They were built in the same yard that built Nordhavns. They sail pretty well too. But I've been a member of their owners group for a year or so now and they do seem to need quite a bit of maintenance.

I guess that leads me to my last tip. Join owner forums for any vessels you're considering and just read them. Of course if you ask them about ownership you're going to get biased responses but you can monitor the types of issues popping up on the chat boards and that should give you half an idea of what you're getting yourself into. Also cold call some surveyors (not brokers) and ask them what they think of the type of vessel you're considering.

One day I was pretty bored a year or so ago and spent the whole day hunting down owner forums for just about any type of sailboat that has an owners site. I set up a separate email account for these sites and now I consider it a library of of highly useful information.

Not going to mention makes or models out of fear of offending any owners of these vessels but there are many that are considered to be solid bluewater boats that are mentioned often in list I now would not touch with a 10 foot pole after reading the types of issues owners were posting about.

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