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Old 31-12-2013, 13:28   #76
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Re: Outfitting vs. Cruise Ready Dilemma

OregonWaterman:
"Getting out of drilling bulkheads etc. to lay 100 feet of cable may not be an innovation but it is a viable solution if I ever found myself too weak or too rich to raise my own anchor."

Now I am going to have to call BS on that statment - OR - agree that you are either a novice or a troll

We cruise with a 66 pound Spade and several hundred feet of 5/16" chain. In Puget Sound and the San Juans it was very common to have to anchor in 45' of water. Given a 5:1 scope that is 225 feet or 260 pounds of chain plus a 66 pound anchor.

Our cruising on the west coast of Vancouver Island frequently saw us anchored in 60 feet of water just a few yards off shore. I was pretty certain I was not going to pull 100' of 7/8" rode, 250' of 3/8" chain, and a Bruce 44 every time we wanted to move. We spent a month out there and moved almost daily.

WHO pulls that by hand? Are you serious??

And more to the point:

Several times in Mexico we were caught by sudden (calm one minute and 35 knots onshore 5 minutes later) very strong winds. There is absolutely no way in hell than anyone, probably not even superman, pulls 100" of chain and a 66 pound anchor into 35 knots and 3' chop. Our boat weighs 12 tons in cruising form - HAND PULL that weight into the wind?? No way!!

I single hand a lot and did so for several years in Mexico - without that VWC1200 windlass there was no possibility of getting the chain and anchor back onto the boat.

You can read a storyabout the sudden onshore winds at:

click here: http://www.svmirador.net/September_29_2002.htm

Are you really serious about windlasses are for rich lazy guys?

I have cruised for up to a week with no working windlass on our boat and think it idiotic to try to do it again.
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Old 31-12-2013, 14:13   #77
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Re: Outfitting vs. Cruise Ready Dilemma


I have cruised for up to a week with no working windlass on our boat and think it idiotic to try to do it again.



You are missing one major point in this discussion.
My boat isn't your boat. My way isn't your way.
I do not need to anchor in 45 feet of water and rock so I would not set up my boat to do something I would never ask of it.
My boat will not cross oceans, it cruises to surf spots in Baja/Mainland and back to Oregon. That is what it is set up for. It is all I ask of it.
To set it up for long passages is a waste of money unless I am doing those long passages.
Your boat is set up to cross oceans, will you?

I had respect for you at first, I read all the way through Mirador's web pages a few days back (check your visitor logs).
Now, well, if you cannot see that a boat is set up by the owner, for the owner, for very different uses, then be on your way.

You can consider me a novice (lol, is that a bad thing?), may I consider you as some one who has a boat capable of cruising the world but she is now not much more than an floating apartment at this point? Does all of that gear really do much at D dock? Since 2010?
Honestly, you have taken her to Mexico twice and that's it.
What's the point in having all of that capability and not using it?

I am going to bug out of this thread.
One, because this is some rarified air and I am not in that club.
Two, sailors like OP and yourself are mine and others source for used gear and I hate to poison the wellspring of bargains that entails.
Keep up with the newest gear, I will watch the classifieds.
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Old 31-12-2013, 14:29   #78
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Re: Outfitting vs. Cruise Ready Dilemma

Oregon, don't begin to assume what I intend on using this boat for. Also, if I'm spending a hypothetical amount of money on a boat and the gear that I equip it with, you better believe I'm going to use it until it's bitter end, not sell it in a classifieds forum. Thanks for all of your information you've contributed, but in terms of this thread, I think Tacoma has provided invaluable information since he owns and sails the exact boat that I'm interested in, with the same type of gear installed. I've posted before: congratulations on installing your gear yourself and doing without certain things, but as for myself, I am not in your position. Don't just assume that because I can't install my own electronics gear and sail a 22,000lb boat without a windlass, that I'm going to outfit the boat for extended cruising and then sell all of my newly acquired items and say "to hell with it."

Tacoma, thanks again for the links. If you don't mind posting in this thread, I'd love to hear your opinions on the problems of a custom designed arch. Of course you can PM me if you wish.

David
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Old 31-12-2013, 14:34   #79
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Re: Outfitting vs. Cruise Ready Dilemma

If you want great prices on almost anything, get your list together, and head to the January boat shows - you'll get to see/touch what you're looking for, and my local shops will usually match boat show pricing.
- I get the best price I can on the boat show floor, then call my local shop on the spot - if they match I commit, otherwise I close the deal with the boat show guy. Saved big bucks on electronic package this way and gained local support, picked up a great deal on a liferaft no one else could match - as long as you know what your personal must haves are, you'll come out ahead.

Used market is great for some items, but not all.
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Old 31-12-2013, 14:50   #80
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Re: Outfitting vs. Cruise Ready Dilemma

nofacey, good call. Hopefully I will have a boat ready to start outfitting by the time the Miami boat show unfurls on Feb. 13th!
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Old 31-12-2013, 14:59   #81
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Re: Outfitting vs. Cruise Ready Dilemma

Quote:
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Oregon, don't begin to assume what I intend on using this boat for. Also, if I'm spending a hypothetical amount of money on a boat and the gear that I equip it with, you better believe I'm going to use it until it's bitter end, not sell it in a classifieds forum.

David
I sincerely hope you sail her till she or you can sail no more.
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Old 31-12-2013, 15:24   #82
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Re: Outfitting vs. Cruise Ready Dilemma

Miami boat show is the best place for electronics. Many manufacturers announce their new stuff at that show, which also means that is when you get your best deal on last year's version.
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Old 31-12-2013, 16:02   #83
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Re: Outfitting vs. Cruise Ready Dilemma

I am wondering, I have a list of gear that I would like to post and get some opinions on regarding outfitting this Caliber. Should I post in the appropriate sub-forum or just throw it all into this thread?
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Old 31-12-2013, 21:57   #84
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Re: Outfitting vs. Cruise Ready Dilemma

Quote:
Originally Posted by DDabs View Post
I have estimated that for the older Caliber, I will still need to spend ~$15k for an arch and power generation, while with the newer LRC, I will need to spend that as well, with the addition of around ~$20k for a proper offshore electronic setup.
I am having a hard time getting over $10k adding up all the electronic toys I might put on a boat, I don't see how you could get to $20k.

How many anchors are on the boats and how much rode for each anchor?
Does either on come with a windvane?
Solar panels?
Light air sails? By that I mean a drifter, assymetrical or CodeZero.
3 or 4 reefs in each main?
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Old 31-12-2013, 21:59   #85
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Re: Outfitting vs. Cruise Ready Dilemma

Quote:
Originally Posted by DDabs View Post
I am wondering, I have a list of gear that I would like to post and get some opinions on regarding outfitting this Caliber. Should I post in the appropriate sub-forum or just throw it all into this thread?
This thread.
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Old 31-12-2013, 22:11   #86
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Re: Outfitting vs. Cruise Ready Dilemma

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adelie View Post
I am having a hard time getting over $10k adding up all the electronic toys I might put on a boat, I don't see how you could get to $20k.

How many anchors are on the boats and how much rode for each anchor?
Does either on come with a windvane?
Solar panels?
Light air sails? By that I mean a drifter, assymetrical or CodeZero.
3 or 4 reefs in each main?
Touch screen chart plotter integrated with radar/sonar/wind instruments - and a strong autopilot - not hard to get into the $20k range.

DDabs, to me tankage is the deciding factor - you can add most everything else pretty easily - and the age difference only further benefits the LRC.
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Old 31-12-2013, 22:18   #87
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Re: Outfitting vs. Cruise Ready Dilemma

If you get a large screen, the price climbs. I actually prefer two smaller screens to one big one. Redundancy, costs less, and if I want the radar on I can just dedicate one screen to that.
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Old 01-01-2014, 10:53   #88
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Re: Outfitting vs. Cruise Ready Dilemma

DDabs- keep posting here. I just recently purchased an older boat and I need to decide on electronics in the not too far future. I also think that Tacoma is an excellent ref for you. With age comes experience. And that 40LRC in Annapolis looks excellent.

I also agree with others that you are too focused on electronics at this point. I would focus more on sail condition, windlass and electrical generation. 55 gal seems plenty with a bladder. We carried 47 gal plus 3 cans on deck and honestly could have gotten by with far less on our last cat.

Tacoma - what are the fuel tanks constructed of and do they have good large inspection/clean-out ports?

+1 on Defender.

Boat shows also good but I would not start spending money on electronics until you are ready to really use them. They get better and cheaper every year.
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Old 01-01-2014, 11:12   #89
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Re: Outfitting vs. Cruise Ready Dilemma

Sailorman,

You're right- I am probably thinking too much about electronics at this point. It's so exciting for me to design a system for a barebones boat, but at the same time, I should probably start from the ground up like you said. I will put together a list of battery components, solar, etc., as well as sails and rigging.

I have a flight booked for Maryland leaving next week, and when I get up there I will get more of an idea of what the boat actually has (the Yachtworld description is very vague, and the broker is nice but hasn't provided alot of technical data).
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Old 01-01-2014, 12:07   #90
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Re: Outfitting vs. Cruise Ready Dilemma

The pre-LRC Caliber 40 fuel tanks are aluminum and have 8" inspection plates located on top. I have spent quite a bit of time working in each tank and found it very easy to reach most of the tank interior.

Forward tank 85 gallons - I replaced the floats for the level gauge

Center tank 83 gallons - converted from fuel to water and spent many hours in there cleaning, drying, cleaning, drying...etc. I also replaced those floats

Rear tank 55 gallons - emptied it and scrubbed the entire bottom of the tank to get rid of biologic growth. The stuff was almost crystal clear and could not be seen when fuel was in the tank. The "stuff" had been clogging my fuel filters off and on for over 6-months (despite what OregonWaterman might think - Mirador does go sailing and cruising in SoCal - I just don't blog about it 'cause a 95-mile week long trip to Catalina is so mundane!). I could not figure out what was causing the problem until I scrapped the bottom of the tank with my bare hand, reaching thru 20 gallons of diesel, and came up with a clear gelatinous material.

The aluminum LRC tanks innards are not so easy to get to. I helped friends in Seattle outfit their used LRC that had been abandoned at the dock for three years. The diesel in the tanks was about as thick as 60 weight gear oil and it was rather difficult to get in there and clean it up.

As far as I know, based on active participation in the Caliber 38/40s user group, no Caliber 40 tank has ever leaked and some of the participants have boats that are over 20 years old.
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