Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 29-12-2013, 02:29   #16
Registered User
 
Dulcesuenos's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Florida Keys, Bahamas Bound
Boat: 38' French Cat
Posts: 2,828
Images: 4
I agree with others on a few points. Sail and rigging condition, two of your larger expense factors should be a consideration.
Electronics, you can get a garmin 740 with touchscreen, and hd radar for 1800. Add ais and weather for another 1k and thats pretty good setup. Buy a tablet or two and have additional nv support along w paper.
Use so.e of the rest for solar, watermaker etc.
I dont know that tankage is a huge factor as jerry jugs are cheap. As would be a 50-100 a fuel bladder when you do a crossing.
On a side note theres a pretty nice 48 soverel ketch in Your area for a fraction of the calibers.
__________________

__________________
Dulcesuenos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2013, 12:30   #17
Registered User
 
DDabs's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: St. George's, Grenada
Boat: Caliber 40LRC
Posts: 1,505
Images: 16
Re: Outfitting vs. Cruise Ready Dilemma

The fuel and water tankage for the Caliber 40 LRC is, respectively, 212 gallons and 179 gallons. I think that will be plenty. Thank you all for your thoughts regarding the rigging. Perhaps I'm delving too deep into the electronics; but for some reason I assumed that would be most of the outfit budget. Of course I know that sails and rigging are what keeps the sailboat going. All of the hardware on the Caliber seems to be pretty beefy, especially compared to some of the Beneteau 423's, etc., that I've looked at. Installing new sails and checking all of the gear is something I'll spend more time looking into.

As stated before, as this project is going to be quite taxing, I just want to make sure that everything I buy is something that I'm going to keep for a long time, especially when it comes to electronics.

Dulcesuenos, thanks for the heads up on the boat, I'll give her a look.
__________________

__________________
DDabs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2013, 16:30   #18
Registered User
 
Seagull111's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Maine
Boat: PSC 34
Posts: 84
Re: Outfitting vs. Cruise Ready Dilemma

I like the LRC. Seems like it carries plenty of water and I like the 1200 miles of fuel. I noticed it has 4 tanks and dual filters, a good setup. If I carry cans, I'd rather carry water than fuel. Looks like a clean boat but a good survey will give you a better guess on refit costs. Let us know how the look see goes and maybe the survey. We have tons of opinions and we love new boats.
__________________
Seagull
Seagull111 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2013, 19:42   #19
Registered User
 
TacomaSailor's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Burnt Store Marina, SW Florida
Boat: Caliber 40
Posts: 1,148
Re: Outfitting vs. Cruise Ready Dilemma

It is a SAILBOAT!

Why do you need 1200 NM of motor range?

My Caliber 40 motors at 6.5 knots burning 0.7 GPH - the 1994 Caliber 40 has a 55 gallon tank so that would give you a 500 mile range or enough to motor anywhere you need to.

My Caliber 40 also has a code 0 and big asymetrical spinnaker and can sail at 50% of wind speed in anything above 5 knots.

We purchased our Caliber 40 new in early 1995. In all our 19 years of cruising in Puget Sound, Vancouver Island, the US West Coast and Western Mexico we have never had need for more than the 55 gallon primary tank. Our engine has 2800 hours on it so we do know something about Caliber 40 fuel usage.

I did convert the center 85 gallon water tank to a diesel tank and in 14 years have found no need for that much extra diesel tankage - that includes two trips from Seattle to San Diego and almost four years in Mexico.

The rigging on a Caliber 40 is very stout!

I just had all the rigging inspected on our 1994 Caliber 40 and it was all in perfect condition. The mast and shrouds are far over sized for the size and weight of the boat which was originally designed as a 38 footer (the first four years of production were as 38s). Nothing was changed when it became a 40 except for adding the swim step.

We have done a fair amount of sailing in storm conditions and the standing rigging shows no unusual wear and tear.
__________________
TacomaSailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2013, 20:20   #20
Registered User
 
Oregon Waterman's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Coos Bay
Boat: Toy boat
Posts: 87
Re: Outfitting vs. Cruise Ready Dilemma

When I read 20k for electronics my jaw hit the floor. I know I am not alone in this but holy smokes, I did my boat in all 2010 electronics from a skipper 'refitting' his boat with all new electronics this past Summer.
I bought it all for 1200.00.
He paid 5300.00 in 2/2010.
Yes, it's all 2010 gear but...
I have everything I need and used the leftover dough for cool things, like new whisker stays and stainless shackles, Davits for the dingy, new battery bank, 200 amp alternator, new halyards, new mast sheaves (even added one), new deck paint and new plexiglass for the spare companion way doors. The rest of the money I used to cover expenses for May through September next year while cruising/surfing Baja.
__________________
Oregon Waterman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2013, 20:36   #21
Registered User
 
GeoPowers's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Gulfport, MS
Boat: Beneteau 393
Posts: 947
Images: 27
Re: Outfitting vs. Cruise Ready Dilemma

Whatever you do, buy a boat that you can sail right away. It may not have all the bells and whistles that you think you need for cruising, but make sure you can go a weekend or maybe a week underway and enjoy your boat if you need to refit. There are too many people out there tied to the dock that are in refit hell. Going for a day sail or weekend is a great way to keep the cruising flames of desire alive!

Frank
GeoPowers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2013, 20:36   #22
Registered User
 
DDabs's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: St. George's, Grenada
Boat: Caliber 40LRC
Posts: 1,505
Images: 16
Re: Outfitting vs. Cruise Ready Dilemma

TacomaSailor, good to know, thank you very much for the info. I'm not saying I need the extra tankage to have the motoring range, but the LRC I am looking at just so happens to be in better condition than the regular 40, and also five years newer. It just makes sense to me to try and go with that boat.

Oregon Waterman, perhaps $20k was a bit much for my first estimate. I am just now starting to figure out these numbers, and that was also figuring the cost of installation, as I would be hiring someone to do the wiring, mounting, etc.
__________________
DDabs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2013, 20:39   #23
Registered User
 
DDabs's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: St. George's, Grenada
Boat: Caliber 40LRC
Posts: 1,505
Images: 16
Re: Outfitting vs. Cruise Ready Dilemma

GeoPowers, that's another reason why I'm drawn to the boat in Maryland. I would have to sail it down to Florida before I start the refit, which will be a good chance to get to know the boat and figure out for myself what I want and need to add. As far as I know so far, the sails are original but the boat has barely been sailed. The engine has only 600 hours on it, and she seems like a brand new boat on the inside. Again, this is all just based on what I can tell from the broker/photos. I would be getting a survey of course.
__________________
DDabs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2013, 20:47   #24
Registered User
 
Oregon Waterman's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Coos Bay
Boat: Toy boat
Posts: 87
Re: Outfitting vs. Cruise Ready Dilemma

Oregon Waterman, perhaps $20k was a bit much for my first estimate. I am just now starting to figure out these numbers, and that was also figuring the cost of installation, as I would be hiring someone to do the wiring, mounting, etc.[/QUOTE]

I think you will find the installation process pretty straight forward of you go with one maker. I installed radar/radio/antennae/chartplotter and all cabling and wires in three hours on my boat. Most was plug and play with only two new leads and a short trip up the mast. My existing wiring was top notch though and ready for the new gear.
If you do hire some one to install the electronics, hourly-not flat rate!
__________________
Oregon Waterman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2013, 21:19   #25
Registered User
 
DDabs's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: St. George's, Grenada
Boat: Caliber 40LRC
Posts: 1,505
Images: 16
Re: Outfitting vs. Cruise Ready Dilemma

Good to know once again. Looks like I might be able to save some money with the electronics.

Update regarding the boat:
Just found out that she has never had refrigeration or a windlass. On the plus side, the boat has the space already there for the fridge/icebox, I'm just guessing it needs a refrigeration unit. Also, the boat has a nice bowsprit, so adding a windlass shouldn't be a big deal I would imagine. Correct me if I'm wrong. As far as the ground tackle, she has two anchors with chain and rode.
__________________
DDabs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2013, 22:42   #26
Registered User
 
TacomaSailor's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Burnt Store Marina, SW Florida
Boat: Caliber 40
Posts: 1,148
Re: Outfitting vs. Cruise Ready Dilemma

Have you any experience doing the work/upgrades that you are thinking about?

For example:

adding the windlass (installed it originally, then updated it twice)
- run 00 cable from engine room to bow thru four bulkheads including the watertight crash bulkhead at the bow
- installing fuse/circuit breaker
- installing controls at bow in locker(hard to reach and uncomfortable to work in)
- mounting windlass
- mounting chain stoppers
about 25 hours labor
COSTS
75' of 00 cable ~$1,000 (35 feet one way / 100 amps / 12.5V 3% V drop)
four cable ends ~$25
reversing controls ~$150
windlass ~$2,800
circuit breaker / on-off switch $100

Now multiply that example by many times for
- arch
- refrigeration
- solar panels and/or wind turbine
- autopilot
- instruments
- radar
- watermaker (?)
- HF radio

each one of those projects is 30 or more hours and many thousands of dollars

For example: I just spent 20 hours installing a new control head and course computer for a Raymarine autopilot that I originally installed in 1995 and updated in 2001. I know that system as well as can be known and it still required 20 hours - to do a neat/tidy/secure install.

Rebuilding the linear drive motor took another five hours.
__________________
TacomaSailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2013, 22:52   #27
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Cruz
Boat: Boatless Again
Posts: 4,310
Re: Outfitting vs. Cruise Ready Dilemma

Brokerage pictures show you the nice things, not the ugly things. I took a look at a Caliber 40 in City Island for a friend and sent him a dozen pictures that didn't make the sales brochure. He walked away.
__________________
donradcliffe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-12-2013, 00:36   #28
Senior Cruiser
 
Jim Cate's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 11,440
Re: Outfitting vs. Cruise Ready Dilemma

Quote:
Originally Posted by donradcliffe View Post
Brokerage pictures show you the nice things, not the ugly things. I took a look at a Caliber 40 in City Island for a friend and sent him a dozen pictures that didn't make the sales brochure. He walked away.
Boy is that true!

Remember, a picture is worth a thousand words, but a missing picture may cover up ten thousand cuss words, yet to be spoken.

Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II , lying Port Cygnet, Tasmania once again
Jim Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-12-2013, 01:32   #29
Registered User
 
Oregon Waterman's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Coos Bay
Boat: Toy boat
Posts: 87
Re: Outfitting vs. Cruise Ready Dilemma

Quote:
Originally Posted by TacomaSailor View Post
Have you any experience doing the work/upgrades that you are thinking about?

For example:

adding the windlass (installed it originally, then updated it twice)
- run 00 cable from engine room to bow thru four bulkheads including the watertight crash bulkhead at the bow
- installing fuse/circuit breaker
- installing controls at bow in locker(hard to reach and uncomfortable to work in)
- mounting windlass
- mounting chain stoppers
about 25 hours labor
COSTS
75' of 00 cable ~$1,000 (35 feet one way / 100 amps / 12.5V 3% V drop)
four cable ends ~$25
reversing controls ~$150
windlass ~$2,800
circuit breaker / on-off switch $100



OMGZBBQ
__________________
Oregon Waterman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-12-2013, 03:56   #30
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Re: Outfitting vs. Cruise Ready Dilemma

Quote:
Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY View Post
Don't just estimate but actually make a list with REAL prices for all the gear the newer boat will need.
+1 (000!)

A buyer will find out all these numbers anyway after purchase - IMO makes sense to find out before buying (the easy way!) rather than after (the hard way!).

From OP's description (which may not of course be accurate! - but I give him benefit of the doubt ) I would say that either boat is in the ballpark as a starting point (for me low and zero engine hours much the same)....the big difference appears to be tankage and on the basis that is likely to be a deal breaker cost wise to retro install then OP needs to decide whether that additional tankage is needed by him for his intended use (not by me or by others!)......and if the answer is needed the choice is made, if not then I would go for whichever the numbers say to choose.
__________________

David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
cruise

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:29.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.