Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 22-01-2014, 15:46   #16
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2013
Boat: John G. Alden 44
Posts: 15
Images: 9
Re: Osmosis treatment with homemade hotvac

Hi Roger,

Very nice piece of work! Congratulations. Haha it seems we went through the same steps of trials and tribulations. I tried one of those black electrical floor heating you apparently experimented with in picture 13, too. But the max. temperatures it reached were disappointing. My readings had been between 5-7 (d45 Greisinger, depth 10mm) when I started glassing the hull with epoxy, which appeared to be pretty dry compared to dry spots over the waterline. I have to add to that, though, that when I started hotvaccing there wasn't much moisture left as I'd already got rid of all the mats down to the roving. On average the readings dropped by another 2% and then stopped.
Did you finish your project by now?

Crayfish
__________________

__________________
Crayfish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-01-2014, 16:10   #17
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2013
Boat: John G. Alden 44
Posts: 15
Images: 9
Re: Osmosis treatment with homemade hotvac

Roger,

I've had a look on your website and I am deeply impressed!

Crayfish
__________________

__________________
Crayfish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-01-2014, 16:31   #18
Resin Head
 
minaret's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Seattle WA
Boat: Nauticat
Posts: 7,199
Images: 52
Re: Osmosis treatment with homemade hotvac

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crayfish View Post
Roger,

I've had a look on your website and I am deeply impressed!

Crayfish

Likewise. Very nice work. This should put this in a more affordable price range for the dedicated amateur. Good stuff!
__________________
O you who turn the wheel and look to windward,

Consider Phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you.
minaret is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-01-2014, 16:39   #19
Moderator
 
HappyMdRSailor's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2008
Location: North Mississippi
Boat: 48 Wauquiez Pilot Saloon-C22 Chrysler Sunpiper- 19 Potter-Preparing to cruise w/my girl
Posts: 5,980
Re: Osmosis treatment with homemade hotvac

Wowsa...

You guys just stole my word..... OK... Uh... Beyond impressed then....
__________________
In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair...

Mai Tai's fix everything...
HappyMdRSailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-01-2014, 16:56   #20
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Ringwood (UK South coast)
Boat: Westerly Centaur 26
Posts: 10
Re: Osmosis treatment with homemade hotvac

Cheers guys,

The projects on-going as i started it right at the beginning of what turned out to be the longest economic downturn (2008) so money's been tight the last few years but i will finish it as the difficult (hull) stuff is done now.

Just waiting for a weather window to spray the outside then engine and interior in, who knows may get the boat finished this year then save up and build a rig for it.

I was trying to post some pictures but dont seem to have had much luck, the reason why i posted here was to show a mate that people have made their own working hotvac systems. The other site is boatdesign.net which gives a good description of other peoples homebrew systems.

Basically i was trying to convince my mate he doesn't need to spend thousands of pounds as his boat is similar size to mine but he wants the job done but without the zero's.

I figured if you went with the heater cable mat, 2 stage pump, temperature control box and the fittings you can build the kit off of ebay for 250, to put that in context i was quoted 7000 to plane, dry then coat epoxy on the hull - just rediculous seeing as the boats worth 12000.

Yes the black electrical film was rubbish for me too, only 30 odd degrees c, the cable mat worked well but took a while to get upto temperature but the silicon mats were the daddy - they took under a minute to hit 100 degrees c.

Before i filled and faired the hull with wests i got the wetted area to match the topsides (green sector on a tramex) so should pass muster on a survey.

Thanks for taking the time.

cheers

roger
__________________
www.agentlemansyacht.com
rogerball0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-01-2014, 17:16   #21
Resin Head
 
minaret's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Seattle WA
Boat: Nauticat
Posts: 7,199
Images: 52
Re: Osmosis treatment with homemade hotvac

Quote:
Originally Posted by rogerball0 View Post
Cheers guys,

The projects on-going as i started it right at the beginning of what turned out to be the longest economic downturn (2008) so money's been tight the last few years but i will finish it as the difficult (hull) stuff is done now.

Just waiting for a weather window to spray the outside then engine and interior in, who knows may get the boat finished this year then save up and build a rig for it.

I was trying to post some pictures but dont seem to have had much luck, the reason why i posted here was to show a mate that people have made their own working hotvac systems. The other site is boatdesign.net which gives a good description of other peoples homebrew systems.

Basically i was trying to convince my mate he doesn't need to spend thousands of pounds as his boat is similar size to mine but he wants the job done but without the zero's.

I figured if you went with the heater cable mat, 2 stage pump, temperature control box and the fittings you can build the kit off of ebay for 250, to put that in context i was quoted 7000 to plane, dry then coat epoxy on the hull - just rediculous seeing as the boats worth 12000.

Yes the black electrical film was rubbish for me too, only 30 odd degrees c, the cable mat worked well but took a while to get upto temperature but the silicon mats were the daddy - they took under a minute to hit 100 degrees c.

Before i filled and faired the hull with wests i got the wetted area to match the topsides (green sector on a tramex) so should pass muster on a survey.

Thanks for taking the time.

cheers

roger


Thanks for posting here! Nice system and your blog is a hoot.
__________________
O you who turn the wheel and look to windward,

Consider Phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you.
minaret is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2014, 03:49   #22
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1
Re: Osmosis treatment with homemade hotvac

Volker
I have read your article. Very interesting.
I suppose the sheet is made of silicone. What I do not understand is how you apply vacuum between your sheet and the boat hull !
Can you explain a bot more
Regards

Francis
__________________
Francis Massin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2014, 13:55   #23
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Ringwood (UK South coast)
Boat: Westerly Centaur 26
Posts: 10
Re: Osmosis treatment with homemade hotvac

Hi Francis,

I'm not Volker but Roger the guy who built the other system, turns out we both came up against the same pitfalls and pretty much built similar systems having never met or seen each others work.

To answer your question; Butyl tape is what i put my silcone mats onto the hull with then evacuated all the area with a simple vac pump, have a look here:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1101828...eat=directlink

Any questions give us a shout although Volker just as knowledgable, my address can be found on my blog

A Gentleman's Yacht

cheers Roger
__________________
www.agentlemansyacht.com
rogerball0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2014, 16:22   #24
Registered User
 
mischief's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Port Stephens Australia
Boat: Nantucket 33
Posts: 221
Re: Osmosis treatment with homemade hotvac

That's fantastic. I had hoped to get to this in a few months but the internal refit has run overtime. So likely I will be doing this on the next haul out.
Cheers


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
mischief is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2014, 07:16   #25
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Ringwood (UK South coast)
Boat: Westerly Centaur 26
Posts: 10
Re: Osmosis treatment with homemade hotvac

Cheers Mischief go for it!

BTW just had a look at Volker's site for the first time; Hitch-Hike-Heidi.de | Lotterleben par excellence and have to say the guy's work is exemplary as i mentioned before its fascinating how we both tried similar approaches early on.

I have to admit i came quite close to scrapping the whole project when after nearly a year of hot-washing and heating the the moisture readings refused to budge. But by tweaking a couple of things and being more methodical i got there in the end.

Just goes to show with a little bit of knowledge and an ebay account anythings possible!!

Roger
__________________
www.agentlemansyacht.com
rogerball0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2014, 19:40   #26
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 2
Re: Osmosis treatment with homemade hotvac

First of all, thank you to both Crayfish and Roger for making this info available and public, its been hugely instructive and cheering so far. I plan on trying this on my Annapolis 30 shortly.
One thing I have not been able to suss out yet:
Roger, between your initial heating pad model on the black backing, and the ones in the silicon mats: was there any change in the heating elements themselves, or was the difference purely in the insulation quality of the mat material?
Could either of you be just a tad more specific about the heat rating of the heating elements themselves?
Huge Thanks,
James
__________________
El_Fakir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2014, 03:32   #27
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Ringwood (UK South coast)
Boat: Westerly Centaur 26
Posts: 10
Re: Osmosis treatment with homemade hotvac

Hi James

Yes the black heater pads were experiements using domestic under-floor heater elements, the first one which was the huge black mat (1m square) utilised heater cable set in a mesh although later on i'd cut that away and tape the cable directly to the mat and make a smaller version.

The other iteration would utilse an under-floor element but unlike the first that used cables i went with a system that was 1mm thick which was a copper conductor set in plastic film.

I concluded the heater cable was far superior to the plastic film in terms of maximum heat (around 80 degrees c vs the film' max of around 35 degrees c and also the time taken to reach maximum heat output but i still wasn't impressed by the time taken with the heat cable tbh.

Hence the silicon rubber mats, these have tungsten elements running through them and were rated for 200 degrees c although the controller boxes i made were limited to 100 degrees c plus anymore than that and you'll start to change the chemistry of the resin.

In a nutshell the silicone mats would hit 100 degrees c almost instantly, obviously i'd dial in what i wanted temperature-wise via the controller boxes but overall they were way more practical as you could get alot more done over the course of a few days.

The 'ingredients' for the my mats were as follows (from outside to in):

So outer layer (the bit you see on the boats hull) edpm roofing rubber with butyl tape taped all around the edge to secure on the hull. Then a layer of 6mm depron with foil taped to it to reflect heat inwards towards the hull then the heater cables taped to that then breather cloth over that with a heat sensor taped inside to record temp and thats it.

The pictures tell you all this, importantly you'll need to build a thermostat control box to control temps as you dont want to fry the hull just dry it, google 'ATC 800' and thats the brain i built my control box around , very simple too.

Hope that helps

Roger
__________________
www.agentlemansyacht.com
rogerball0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2014, 06:15   #28
Moderator Emeritus
 
GordMay's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 31,579
Images: 240
Re: Osmosis treatment with homemade hotvac

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, James.
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2014, 20:32   #29
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 2
Re: Osmosis treatment with homemade hotvac

Cheers Roger, thanks a ton. And its good to have found you all; lots of detailed and highly valuable info seems to live here. I look forward to picking your brains in the future, as well as hopefully contributing to the knowledge heap.
__________________
El_Fakir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2014, 14:16   #30
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Ringwood (UK South coast)
Boat: Westerly Centaur 26
Posts: 10
Re: Osmosis treatment with homemade hotvac

No worries, give us a shout if you get stuck.

Just remembered with the silicone rubber mats (orange ones) i didn't bother with the depron sheet and also i forgot to get them made with a hole through the sheet placed in a corner to help drain any fluids as i had to make a rubber envelope that i butyl taped to the mat but everything else is as the early mats.

cheers

Roger
__________________

__________________
www.agentlemansyacht.com
rogerball0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
osmosis

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:22.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.