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Old 25-11-2011, 09:08   #16
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Re: Opinions on Double-Enders

There is also some righting moment lost aft. Pretty looking hulls though.
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Old 25-11-2011, 09:26   #17
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Re: Opinions on Double-Enders

I dont think there is enough techical diference to say yea or nay on double enders. It's really about how you like it. My double ender squatted some when motoring, Probably due to the underwater stern shape required to develop the stern.....but it wasnt a big deal.
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Old 25-11-2011, 11:13   #18
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Re: Opinions on Double-Enders

Mine squats when under power if I push it past hull speed. At 2400rpms, I get what seems right for the boat, any more than that and down goes the stearn. I do gain speed - 1/2 knt or so but the fuel bill goes up and in a following sea under power, she tends to yawl around and become harder to steer.
I also will tell you that some designs arent good when it comes to lifting the stearn in a following sea. It seems that the narrow, sharply pointed boats lack good lifting ability compared to a broad, fat, canoe shaped stearn. At least this is what I've found out from 40 years of driving different boats around the planet, for what that's worth.
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Old 25-11-2011, 11:36   #19
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Hi guys,

I sailed my double ended hans christian 41T from Oriental NC to Scotland singlehanded, I can confirm that in the rough stuff she behaved extremely well. the HC is a pleasure to sail, the harder it blows the better she goes! The stern does indeed dig in under motor, which has only made me want to use the sails more! :-). My last boat was a modern fast cruiser that jumped around all over the place when the seas got up from the quarter, the double ender loves the sea from any direction, a real pleasure to sail in fact she loves the sea, period. I agree about aft storage but there ain't no such thing as the "perfect boat" , once I realised this i focused in on what was important for me and it was sea kindliness as I sail solo. I would wholeheartedly recommend a DE. < ;-) >

charlie.
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Old 25-11-2011, 11:46   #20
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Re: Opinions on Double-Enders

Double enders have the rudder hung off the aft pointy end. Canoe sterns and other rounded stern aberations are really no different than a transom sterned boat below the water line. Otherwise, canoe sterns are an aesthetic thing not a hydrodynamic feature. Of course, it would be a bit difficult to get a canoe stern to fit onto the fat butt today's boats.

To me, the benefit of a true double ender is having the rudder hung out the back with gudgeons and pintles that are easy to get at and strongly designed. The rudders don't depend on a ruddershaft hidden away from sight in a dark tube poking up inside the boat. They have less buoyancy aft so aren't surfers which will effect off the wind performance. The lessened buoyancy could also cause the boat to hobby horse to weather though I think that is more a function of hull shape forward. Having sailed many thousands of miles in a Westsail, can't say the boat was slow off the wind. The bluff bows didn't make the boat a winner hard on the wind in choppy seas. That wasn't a function of just the stern. Other double enders seem to do just fine to weather
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Old 25-11-2011, 14:21   #21
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Re: Opinions on Double-Enders

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Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
I know you're havin' a laugh here Ronbo, but I've seen similar quotes ascribed to Bob Perry. I cannot, however, find any primary source for this quote. Can you point me in the right direction? I do find it odd that a marine architect, who has designed so many well-regarded double-enders, would disparage the design.

BTW, my double-ender (Rafiki-37) was designed by Canadian architect Stan Huntington. The previous owner used Bob Perry as a purchasing consultant when he bought our boat. Perry is quoted as saying "Stan really got it right when he designed the Rafiki 37." This is my preferred Perry quote
Mike,

No disparagement meant. I like double enders. Some are very pretty. I have a boat disparaged by some, a Gozzard, but I love it.

Bob Perry wrote a book a couple of years ago, Yacht Design According to Perry. He chronicles his design career and is brutally honest about his successes and failures. Some say he has a large ego but he's earned it. You will find his views of hull shapes to be interesting.

You should also check out Sailing Anarchy which Bob frequents regularly answering questions honestly. I think it was on that forum I read his comment about sailing backwards.

Ronbo
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Old 25-11-2011, 14:56   #22
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Re: Opinions on Double-Enders

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Mike,

No disparagement meant. I like double enders. Some are very pretty. I have a boat disparaged by some, a Gozzard, but I love it.
Ronbo
And no insult taken Ronbo. Thanks for the references. I'll look for "Yacht Design According to Perry."

BTW, I also like Gozzard's designs. Let those natters say what they will, WE know the truth about what makes a good sea boat .
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Old 25-11-2011, 15:23   #23
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Re: Opinions on Double-Enders

Interesting discussion. The humble Tahitiana is also a famous double-ender design. I can certainly vouch for the reduced storage capacity but that in itself may not be a bad thing - cruisers, like nature, seem to abhor a vacuum. I'm very happy with the performance of Kuan Yin, though she's certainly no racer.
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Old 25-11-2011, 15:29   #24
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Re: Opinions on Double-Enders

OK my take, I love double enders, sailed a Westsail for 4 years, now Iím in a C&C 38, much different beast. I am looking for a retirement boat to get setup for 6-7 years out when the world will be my playground. I love double enders, but I havenít seen an easy way to carry enough solar on a system on the stern. I want 3 135 watts panels easy on my reasonably conventional C&C very easy on some of the big assed contemporary boats but hard on a beautiful double ender. You have to look at the aft space harder these days than the old, ahh Iíll just run the engine 1.5-2 hours a day. Sailing wise they are great and have sailed millions of miles.
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Old 25-11-2011, 17:58   #25
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Re: Opinions on Double-Enders

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Double enders have the rudder hung off the aft pointy end. Canoe sterns and other rounded stern aberations are really no different than a transom sterned boat below the water line. Otherwise, canoe sterns are an aesthetic thing not a hydrodynamic feature. Of course, it would be a bit difficult to get a canoe stern to fit onto the fat butt today's boats.

To me, the benefit of a true double ender is having the rudder hung out the back with gudgeons and pintles that are easy to get at and strongly designed. The rudders don't depend on a ruddershaft hidden away from sight in a dark tube poking up inside the boat. They have less buoyancy aft so aren't surfers which will effect off the wind performance. The lessened buoyancy could also cause the boat to hobby horse to weather though I think that is more a function of hull shape forward. Having sailed many thousands of miles in a Westsail, can't say the boat was slow off the wind. The bluff bows didn't make the boat a winner hard on the wind in choppy seas. That wasn't a function of just the stern. Other double enders seem to do just fine to weather
I dont think and aft hung rudder is a requirement for a true duoble ender. I 've seen Garden and brewer "pointy" DE's with inboard rudders. great point s though.
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Old 25-11-2011, 19:20   #26
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Re: Opinions on Double-Enders

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We loved our Lord Nelson 35.

See also:

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Old 25-11-2011, 19:22   #27
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Re: Opinions on Double-Enders

Double enders, just ask the Vikings, some of the best sailors that ever floated a boat.
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Old 26-11-2011, 04:15   #28
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Re: Opinions on Double-Enders

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Double enders, just ask the Vikings, some of the best sailors that ever floated a boat.
Yeah, but (just like the Polynesians) a lot of them would have been lost at sea during their epic voyages.

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Old 26-11-2011, 14:39   #29
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Re: Opinions on Double-Enders

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Double enders, just ask the Vikings, some of the best sailors that ever floated a boat.



Those were double enders out of necessity, they had not developed square butts or transom hung rudders as of that era. The Med and Arab Gulf ships of the era were all double enders also because it was easy to build, only some rowing rafty types were not double enders.
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Old 26-11-2011, 15:23   #30
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Re: Opinions on Double-Enders

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Yeah, but (just like the Polynesians) a lot of them would have been lost at sea during their epic voyages.

History is written by the Survivors
David, I only hope that my navagation skill get as good as the polynesians.
I read an article in the not so distant past about a Hawaian who is still practicing their ancient meathods, quite amazing, no compass or sextant.
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