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Old 24-11-2012, 10:57   #1
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Opinion on this schooner

Hi,

My good friend is looking for a boat to live on, and currently has this boat in his sights:

Schooner - Sean Paquito IV

Only boat he had before was 21 foot bilge keeler to learn sailing.

1) Is this type of vessel suitable to cross Atlantic?
2) This old-fashioned rigging - is it very different sailing wise to standard sailing (sloops, ketches)

I assume this boat is perfect to live onboard space wise..

Do you think price is a bit on a low side? (400k eur)
Anything else we should be aware of ?

Appreciate your help cruisers
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Old 24-11-2012, 11:04   #2
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Re: Opinion on this schooner

Not the type of boat you want to get unless you are very experienced with the type. Also, steel hull could be good or terrible. Steel boats can really go downhill fast if the construction or maintenance aren't top notch. She will require lots of work to keep up, no matter what her current condition. I advise most people to stay away from "character" boats unless they have a specific reason to want one, or a special knowledge of the type. Having said all that, she is a beautiful looking boat.
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Old 24-11-2012, 11:05   #3
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Re: Opinion on this schooner

that's a big, complicated boat, can he afford to maintain it?
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Old 24-11-2012, 11:11   #4
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Re: Opinion on this schooner

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Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
that's a big, complicated boat, can he afford to maintain it?
he is reasonably wealthy,
however it's difficult for me and him to at least have totally wild guess on how much does the upkeep for a boat like this might cost.

Selling agent did mention that current owner "has health issues", and boat "needs some cosmetic maintenance".

Although interior photos look very nice. But it's photos, I know.
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Old 24-11-2012, 17:43   #5
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Re: Opinion on this schooner

Find a really good surveyor with lots of steel boat experience. Hull must be audiogauged, get qualified mechanic to do separate engine survey on main and generators. A rigger should be consulted for the rigging.
This is a major undertaking even for someone with lots of traditional boat experience, for a guy whose only other boat was a 21 footer, plan on having 6 professional crew at least (I ran a 145' schooner with 9 full time crew). Normal operating expenses for a 124' yacht would be about $500,000.00-$700,000.00 per year with crew, fuel, insurance, maintenance, moorage, communications, budgeting for 8 year sail replacement cycle, etc, etc...
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Old 24-11-2012, 18:28   #6
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Re: Opinion on this schooner

That is way more boat (ship even) than I think he would need for living aboard.
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Old 24-11-2012, 18:29   #7
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Re: Opinion on this schooner

Seems like a beautiful boat. She can go anywhere.
I've run quite a few boats like that one for owners and your friend will need to be rich, for real.
If she's in great shape, which is unlikely given the price, I'd estimate without getting aboard to look around, he'd probably still be looking at 20 to 40 grand to haul her, survey her and do the bottom and zincs. Welding to repair the hull is actually very easy and relatively cheap; it's the removal and replacement of the interior where you are welding that is costly.
He will probably need a professional captain, engineer, cook and at least a couple of paid crew to run her; more if he has chartering in mind.
There are so many possible things that a vessel such as that might need replaced or repaired. If that's a recent picture, the sails look like they need replacement, a huge outlay. Dockage can run 2 to 3 bucks a foot a day, or more and don't forget the insurance, ouch.
Given your friend is willing to spend some serious money operating her and maintaining her (maybe not quite as much as sailronin suggests, but he's certainly not out of the ball park), I'd say get her surveyed and go from there.
But, hey, if he's serious, Nikki and I would love to sail a beauty like that for him; give us a shout.
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Old 24-11-2012, 21:58   #8
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Re: Opinion on this schooner

Quote:
Originally Posted by parito View Post
Hi,
1) Is this type of vessel suitable to cross Atlantic?
I work on boats like this my resume is here: http://charlescook.com/Resume/CookCh...tingResume.pdf

For an Atlantic crossing you will need 3 watches. Each watch will need a Watch Officer and 2 deck hands. The Captain does not do a watch as he is on call 24/7. You will want an Engineer and a cook. That is 12 crew and you can count on it costing about $10 per person per day for food. The boat will get about 1 nm per gallon when motering. You will pay $2 per foot per day in a marina. The Capt will cost min of $4k per month, 1st Mate about $2k per month, 2nd Mate $1500, 3rd Mate $1500, Cook $1500, Engineer $2k, Deck hands $1200 for a total of around $20k per month for crew.

He will need a lot of money to do this...
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Old 24-11-2012, 22:46   #9
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Re: Opinion on this schooner

man I agree with all of the warnings above
Very important to get a Certified Tech do an ultrasound. if there is substantial metal loss, that beautiful palace is worth Nada
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Old 24-11-2012, 23:23   #10
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Re: Opinion on this schooner

Large yacht management has been my business for many years.
My first impressions from looking at the photo Gallery and history of builder:
  • Boat was built on a very tight budget by an unknown builder who is leaving the country with the 4th boat he built.
  • Cosmetic standard is commercial rather than yacht finish, showing crisis management
  • Teak deck looks very suspect and poorly installed.
  • Sails and Rigging, while traditional are not very well designed.
  • Interior layout more for short charter, rather than live aboard for an owner
  • It is lot of boat for €400, so I suspect previous surveys have found quite a few problems and deficiencies.
  • Operating costs (not including insurance) with 3 paid crew will be about 12% of replacement value, if it is to be maintained well and owner uses it to cruise for 3 months of the year. More if Owner is not a hands on type himself.
  • No problem crossing Atlantic with experienced crew if boat is well maintained.
  • My own yacht is a 19m schooner and having recently spent 4 weeks as temporary delivery captain on 57m 3 masted schooner in Asia, I personally love them, but they are not the most efficient of rigs.
Bottom line, is that the purchase price of this yacht is suspiciously low and it’s value is more specific to the stated 'Services' rather than live aboard.

Unless your friend is in love with the classics and wants to get into crew management issues as a live aboard, better to outlay more and get a more comfortable modern yacht for his needs.
Good luck!
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Old 25-11-2012, 04:03   #11
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Re: Opinion on this schooner

My feeling is the same as all the above, especially it being an expensive boat to maintain and unless you have a particular interest in this sort of boat for some reason and you have lots of money to maintain it, stay away. For that price there are a large number of more suitable liveaboard boats across the world, that would be even more suitable for ocean crossings, living aboard and way lower in maintenance costs. I get the impression that this sort of boat will be a bottomless pit of money.
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