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Old 19-06-2016, 14:43   #31
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Re: Opinion on Cape George 36

I am a CG31 owner, having started building her in 1978. When the previous posters tell you about the construction you need to ignore them - it varied over time, and with the original buyer. Remember: there is no such thing as a standard Cape George - each one was built for/by a specific owner with their own ideas. There were far more owner-completed (or not completed as the case may be) than Cecil et al finished. That said, the interior does look like one of Cecil''s. AFAIK there was never a molded deck/house for any of the models - certainly not when this boat was built. For the decks Cecil preferred to use 5/8" (finished) teak over 10mm (3/8") Sapele Bruynzeel plywood on Alaskan yellow cedar beams, which is all reasonably rot resistant. Some house sides were Honduran mahogany, others Alaskan yellow cedar. The house tops were typically 2x1/4" plywood covered with fiberglass, on laminated beams of Port Orford cedar with the lower laminate of mahogany. Port Orford cedar was used extensively on Cecil's own boats until it became unavailable in the late '70s (at which time the whole logs were exported to Japan). It appears this boat has Port Orford cedar ceilings that have been painted over, also the fir bowsprit and mast have been painted.

The hull was probably laid up by Fiberglass George, a legend in Port Townsend. It is beautiful work. But this is a heavy boat so don't expect it to crash into a rock and not get damaged.

She obviously looks great - a real head turner. She will perform quite well too, though not quite as well as the 31' for her size. She has extensive equipment - near new engine, hydronic heater, Glacier Bay reefer, 2 chartplotters. I would say it will take very little additional costs to equip for cruising - certainly nothing like $50k. And keep in mind that when she was built it probably cost the owner $200k-$250k (1975 dollars) to build - these boats were very expensive. So if she is in good shape, and you want a boat that requires a lot of wood maintenance, then absolutely go for it.

The wood thing... except for the hull proper she is a wooden boat. Assuming Cecil's recommendations were followed she has very high quality wood (but some owners had their own ideas). But even the best quality wood can rot. A small oversight in the bow construction of my Carina caused rot in the Sapele plywood under the king plank at the stem - something I discovered when replacing the bowsprit due to rot inside the krantz iron. It happens... Before buying this boat a thorough survey by someone who really knows wooden boats, and especially Cape Georges, is essential. I find the painted mast and bowsprit worrying - it may have been done to lower maintenance, or cover up discolored wood, but it makes it difficult to find rot developing. There is a reason spars are varnished. By now I know where all of the high risk areas are, so if you like I can PM a few pointers, but you really need a great surveyor (many will not be competent to survey this boat).

Comparing a custom built, primarily wood, boat with production fiberglass boats is absurd - they are different beasts. Which is not to say one is better than the other, just different. Think hard about the maintenance, and your desire to do it or pay for it, before going the wood route. But if you do go that way it will be very satisfying.

Greg
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Old 19-06-2016, 14:48   #32
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Re: Opinion on Cape George 36

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Originally Posted by mitiempo View Post
Here is a review of the Cape George 36

The Cape George 36 Sailboat : Bluewaterboats.org

And here is the pdf of their construction. It speaks for itself I think.

http://www.capegeorgecutters.com/CGCbrochure3.pdf
While I love these boats, if you view page 5 of that construction link, it shows the deck structure. A wood shelf is built inside the hull to support the deck. Any leak and you have a major problem. And unfortunately, the problem is even bigger than a wet core fiberglass deck..it's buried in the construction of the boat. Virtually every glass manufacturer avoids this via a few different schemes of hull to deck attachments, which either overlap the hull top, join at the top and seal, or secure on the outside below the hull top. It's really too bad. You need to be extremely careful inspecting one of these for purchase.
"one bad link in the chain" unfortunately.
Didn't CG eventually start producing some fiberglass decks?
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Old 19-06-2016, 15:47   #33
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Re: Opinion on Cape George 36

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Didn't CG eventually start producing some fiberglass decks?
Not for the Cape George as far as I know.

They have the molds for the Hess designed Bristol Channel cutter and the Falmouth cutter - they probably have glass deck and cabins.
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Old 19-06-2016, 16:30   #34
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Re: Opinion on Cape George 36

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I'm not sure if the CG sail any better to weather than a WS or not. But you can likely find a good WS in the $35k+ range.
Having sailed a wooden eric (same basic design as the ws32) and a wooden tally ho major (same basic design as the CG) I can say the cape george hull shape is a lot faster than the WS/eric hull shape. I really liked the eric, a great seaboat, and no slouch in the right conditions. But the Tally ho/CG would sail rings around it.
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Old 19-06-2016, 17:00   #35
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Re: Opinion on Cape George 36

The shelf was usually laminated cedar, heavily glassed to the hull. The rub rail on the outside (Iroko in my case) was screwed through the hull into the cedar shelf. Those screws can provide access for water to the shelf, so the rub rail needs to be well sealed to the hull and the screws need to be kept sealed - probably best to refit the rail every decade or so. As I said, wooden boat maintenance needs to be done. On the 31' the rail is low to the water so I suspect that if there is a leak it will be salty and thus less likely to rot. Given how heavily glassed the shelf is, it is not clear if a soft wood core would really have much impact - but I don't recommend finding out.

I couldn't tell from the photos what the chainplates looked like: the original design was poor (a horizontal plate on the inside of the bulwarks) so many of us put on external chainplates. The original design exacerbated a potential problem caused by the cedar plank on the inside of the bulwarks: there were often gaps under and behind it that could collect water above the fiberglass tabs holding the plywood deck layer to the hull. Later hulls gave up on the cedar and just built up a solid fiberglass bulwark, with fiberglass extending from bulwark to bulwark and usually painted/gelcoated - no teak decks. More practical but less lovely.

If you don't love working on boats with wood then a bleach bottle boat is a very practical thing for cruising. You buy a boat like this because you fall in love and you are willing to provide the high maintenance. Romantic, or practical?

The comparison with Hinckley is a bit off. Hinckley built its reputation on the Bermuda 40 (great cruiser) - a production boat where the design was refined over a long time. Every Cape George is custom. One 36 had a wedge added to the mold to create a wider transom. All of the interiors varied, and often the house itself. There were no patterns available for anything - everything was one off. Most were owner completed, and went from hack jobs to near perfection. Both yards were capable of the finest woodworking - basically master cabinetmaking. But they were solving different problems. And yes, some of Cecil's best did outshine the production Hinckleys but I would be proud to own a Hinckley as well.

Greg
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Old 19-06-2016, 17:09   #36
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Re: Opinion on Cape George 36

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But the Tally ho/CG would sail rings around it.
Yep, the CG31 can outpace a WS32 to weather - it is only 9.5' beam versus 11.0'. Off the wind it is likely closer but I'd bet on the CG31. But again, there is no such thing as a standard CG31. The original design by Tim Nolan for the 31 had a very tall rig (which requires reefing often when cruising} but many were built with more moderate sailplans.

BTW the 36' was the first one Cecil built. The hull design was done by Ed Monk Sr, the last boat for which he laid down lines - Ed Monk Jr finished the commission. Cecil gave Ed Sr the Tally Ho Major blueprints and asked for a 36 designed on those lines. (The African Star was built to the Tally Ho Major plans.)

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Old 19-06-2016, 17:38   #37
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Re: Opinion on Cape George 36

I remember pulling into a harbor here in the PNW and there was a green CG31 anchored... like my jaw hit the deck she was so beautiful! What a transom... the only better transom was this Italian built one.....
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Old 19-06-2016, 18:01   #38
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Re: Opinion on Cape George 36

OP--you are indeed fortunate to have found such a nice example of a very special yacht. One of my favorites.
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Old 19-06-2016, 18:34   #39
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Re: Opinion on Cape George 36

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(Lyle Hess' Falmouth 34 might be the loveliest thing ever designed, but Bill Atkins was pretty good too.)

i totally agree
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Old 19-06-2016, 18:36   #40
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Re: Opinion on Cape George 36

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Well Bob is a big guy on a big boat and he had room for all that stuff.
I see hardly any small simple boats out cruising. Almost none. I think that is more of an idea in a book than a real thing.
have to tell that to the Pardeys.
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Old 19-06-2016, 18:54   #41
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Re: Opinion on Cape George 36

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have to tell that to the Pardeys.
You sound like another bookworm. Do you think many people actually sail like that?
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Old 19-06-2016, 19:11   #42
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Re: Opinion on Cape George 36



CG36 awesome just awesome.

As to maintenance. Probably better suited as a livaboard with all the wood and such but as far sailing they're great boats.
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Old 19-06-2016, 19:21   #43
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Re: Opinion on Cape George 36

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the only better transom was this Italian built one.....
That's a mighty fine entry, just not the transom. Have a pic of the transom?

Greg
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Old 19-06-2016, 19:56   #44
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Re: Opinion on Cape George 36

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I would not mind, but beyond my budget. Just one inane question: Is that a galley sink or an open water tank? It may be bigger than the total volume of the two basin sink in my home kitchen.
Finally! It took 26 responses before someone mentioned this! I also noted that there were no dates on the sails and the inventory was a little sparse for my taste. The ground tackle seems a little light. Deck missing bungs, but lots of electronics (flat screen TV!). Seems like a boat owned by someone other than an experienced blue water sailor.

I could be wrong, but at that price you don't want any expensive outlays, like deck work or sail inventory.

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went to look at a Pacific Seacraft 37 the other day and happened to go aboard this sailboat and was immediately awestruck. What a beautiful boat. It's at the top of my price range but I can not describe the feeling of happiness I had sitting on the boat - especially down below. This boat is a radical departure from my search. I was looking at PS 34, 37 and a Wauquiez Pretorien. Totally different boats.
As every salesman knows, this is how boats (and everything else) are sold. Slow down and catch your breath.

Paul

(Sorry, I got the quotes mixed up).
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Old 19-06-2016, 20:39   #45
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Re: Opinion on Cape George 36

Thanks again for the great replies and history. It rained a lot yesterday so I thought it would be a good idea to go see the boat. I was particularly interested in how the deck would look after a heavy rain.

When I got on board at about 3:30 p.m., the bilge pump happened to be cycling on. I was surprised. I checked the bilge and indeed there was water and what looked like diesel. I have no idea where the water came from or why there would be water left to expel after so many hours after the rain had stopped.

As to the deck, some of the bungs were still wet and had a dark streak around them (see attached). The sun had been out all morning and the deck was dry except for the areas in the picture.

The bowsprit has indeed been painted recently I believe. I came across a previous listing and saw that it was varnished before and now painted white. Too bad.

Also there looked to be moisture near some of the ports in the cabin. There were cracks in the new paint where I'm guessing the water swelled the wood and cracked the paint.

I have to think long and hard on this one. No boat is perfect but this might be too heavy a lift for me. This will be my first boat and I do not want a maintenance nightmare. I am very mechanically inclined but not a woodworker. She is a really gorgeous boat though and I would definitely be proud to own her.

NGH
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