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Old 17-06-2014, 21:37   #46
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Re: On Starboard or Port Tack?

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Originally Posted by FSMike View Post
Schooners are usually described as having a fore mast and a main mast, with the main mast being as tall as or taller than the fore mast.
Ketches are usually described as having a main mast and a mizzen mast, with the mizzen being shorter than the main.
I don't believe, however, that the definitions say no other type of vessel may have that type of rig(s).

In this case the most obvious difference is that schooners usually have headsails, while the cat ketch designs do not (therefore the cat in the name).
Also, I believe that schooners usually have their forwardmost sail (fore sail) smaller than their aftermost sail (main sail).
This is the opposite of a ketch rig, where the forward (main) sail is usually larger than the aft (mizzen) sail.
A cat ketch might have two equally sized sails, I don't know.

I hope everybody is grateful that I have resisted mentioning schooners with more than two masts.
But I can't resist for long -
Does everybody know the names of the masts on a seven masted schooner?
There is actually some argument about this, but my favorite names are:
Fore
Main
Mizzen
Frigger
Jigger
Driver
and Spanker

Serious stuff this sailing lol.
I believe they were named after the days of the week.

I would have chosen Happy, Sleepy, Sneezy, Dopey, Grumpy, Bashful, and Doc. Or maybe Pride, Envy, Wrath, Sloth, Lust, Avarice, and Gluttony.
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Old 18-06-2014, 01:49   #47
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Well I read this forum for debates and to learn stuff. and to share knowledge when I have it. But I can't believe this thread is going on so long. This IS a two masted cat boat, hence the name cat ketch. Unless the owner modified the masts they are the same height. But there would be no reason to do that, these are well balanced easily sailed boats. Bottom line: the mainsail is on the front mast and boom to starboard making the boat on a port tack
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Old 18-06-2014, 02:09   #48
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pirate Re: On Starboard or Port Tack?

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Originally Posted by StuM View Post
Even when running before, you are still on one tack or the other. and when converging, which tack determines the stand on vessel.
Ahhh... so that's why I got rammed by a motor sailor years back when running down wind at 1.5 kts... my boom was on the wrong side..
Cheers..
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Old 18-06-2014, 05:07   #49
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Re: On Starboard or Port Tack?

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Originally Posted by sparrowhawk1 View Post
Well I read this forum for debates and to learn stuff. and to share knowledge when I have it. But I can't believe this thread is going on so long. This IS a two masted cat boat, hence the name cat ketch. Unless the owner modified the masts they are the same height. But there would be no reason to do that, these are well balanced easily sailed boats. Bottom line: the mainsail is on the front mast and boom to starboard making the boat on a port tack

Yes they easily sailed well balanced boats but you are clearly missing the finer points nearly 50 posts in. What kind of anchor is on the front? Are there guns on board? Is the boat navigated via an IPad or conventional chartplotter? What kind of batteries are powering things? Is there an LED anchor light on the mast? Which brand of bottom paint has been applied? Once all those things are verified then it can be determined which tack the vessel is on. :-)
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Old 18-06-2014, 07:00   #50
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Re: On Starboard or Port Tack?

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Originally Posted by sparrowhawk1 View Post
Well I read this forum for debates and to learn stuff. and to share knowledge when I have it. But I can't believe this thread is going on so long. This IS a two masted cat boat, hence the name cat ketch. Unless the owner modified the masts they are the same height. But there would be no reason to do that, these are well balanced easily sailed boats. Bottom line: the mainsail is on the front mast and boom to starboard making the boat on a port tack
Definition of a ketch is that the shorter mast is in the back. Definition of a schooner is that the forward mast is no taller than the aft mast. So equal height masts means schooner, I'd say Hoyt screwed up and this is a cat schooner. My earlier post #33 has links to definitions.
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Old 18-06-2014, 07:16   #51
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Definition of a ketch is that the shorter mast is in the back. Definition of a schooner is that the forward mast is no taller than the aft mast. So equal height masts means schooner, I'd say Hoyt screwed up and this is a cat schooner. My earlier post #33 has links to definitions.
Your first link shows a picture of a cat ketch. 5Th boat down. And clearly states that if the aft mast is taller than the foremast then it is a cat schooner
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Old 18-06-2014, 08:00   #52
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Re: On Starboard or Port Tack?

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Your first link shows a picture of a cat ketch. 5Th boat down. And clearly states that if the aft mast is taller than the foremast then it is a cat schooner
In the post I indicated that the first link had problems. His cat ketch picture shows the aft mast shorter. He says a cat schooner the aft mast is taller, he does not specify for the cat rig whether equal height masts are ketch or schooner, but for a regular schooner he states that a schooner has the fore mast no taller than the aft mast, as in they can be equal heights.

So unless you apply a different standard to the cat rig, the default applied from a traditional schooner would be equal height masts make it a schooner.
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Old 18-06-2014, 08:10   #53
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That's the whole point. it's a CAT BOAT with two masts. if the masts are equal its a cat ketch if the aft mast is taller its a cat schooner
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Old 18-06-2014, 08:53   #54
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Re: On Starboard or Port Tack?

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That's the whole point. it's a CAT BOAT with two masts. if the masts are equal its a cat ketch if the aft mast is taller its a cat schooner
Bingo!

We catboaters are not bound by the conventional wisdom of folks who insist on burdening themselves with such spurious appurtenances as headsails and shrouds.

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Old 18-06-2014, 17:07   #55
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Re: On Starboard or Port Tack?

Call on VHF Channel 16 and ask him to switch to Channel 69. Then ask which mast is his mainmast. If he doesn't know then ask which tack he's on. If he doesn't know then obviously he has a cat ketooner or a cat scetch.
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Old 18-06-2014, 18:23   #56
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Re: On Starboard or Port Tack?

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Call on VHF Channel 16 and ask him to switch to Channel 69. Then ask which mast is his mainmast. If he doesn't know then ask which tack he's on. If he doesn't know then obviously he has a cat ketooner or a cat scetch.
That two-masted sailboat was supposedly monitoring a particular channel (I've forgotten which) as it was participating in a boat race which required that. In my current life, the question was irrelevant since I was commanding a motorboat. Nevertheless, I had previous lives on sailboats. ... I don't trust/expect sailboats to monitor a VHF radio nor make sound signals.
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Old 18-06-2014, 22:03   #57
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Re: On Starboard or Port Tack?

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That's the whole point. it's a CAT BOAT with two masts. if the masts are equal its a cat ketch if the aft mast is taller its a cat schooner
Well, that's very DIFFERENT!

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Old 19-06-2014, 00:01   #58
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Re: On Starboard or Port Tack?

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Originally Posted by SkiprJohn View Post
Call on VHF Channel 16 and ask him to switch to Channel 69. Then ask which mast is his mainmast. If he doesn't know then ask which tack he's on. If he doesn't know then obviously he has a cat ketooner or a cat scetch.

"I totally suck at the "identify that boat game." But I'd like to play for one round, Bob."

"I'll take identify that boat for $500."

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That two-masted sailboat was supposedly monitoring a particular channel (I've forgotten which) as it was participating in a boat race which required that. In my current life, the question was irrelevant since I was commanding a motorboat. Nevertheless, I had previous lives on sailboats. ... I don't trust/expect sailboats to monitor a VHF radio nor make sound signals.
My real reaction when I saw the first post was - That's bit of a bear to handle. I'm gonna leave him room so I don't mess him up. gybing that thing looks like a PITA.

My initial thought was starboard tack. The aft mast carries two sails. Both of them are on starboard tack. When I sail DDW goosewinged I sail on starboard tack so I have better "rights"

Simple, right?

Now I read the posts that say the forward mast is the mainsail and I think, "Doesn't matter as I would still give him room if I saw him and he would never be a factor to me, so what, I'm not racing him. (Honestly I am also thinking - Boring thread, nothing for me here and a dumb argument about 3 inches in mast height difference)

But this is like dance of the seven veils and is getting sexy and revealling now!

Now we find out he "is" racing, he is in my race and it's important for me to know what tack he is on so I can assert my rights.

So now I think about the collision avoidance aspect of this and think, "Wow! If he is racing and not completely stupid he is going to sail DDW gooswinged on starboard tack - who wouldn't?"

So my guess is he "thinks" he is on starboard tack. If you think different you might be swapping wood with him at some point...

If I saw this guy in the marina entered in my race I would ask him what boom is his mainsail on and I might get the committee director to make an announcement at the skipper briefing to clarify it for everyone.

"How'd I do Bob?"
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