Older vs Newer Boat for Future Cruising

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by petmac

"the times of the monster heavyweight for a cruising boat have passed,and when arriving at a distant anchorage,the first conversation that always comes up is that of a fast and comfortable passage..."

I don't think so.

Stop posting pornography on here. That is one gorgeous boat.

"My brother-in-law, an experienced sailor, gave me good advice. He said, don't buy a boat unless you love it, because the costs of owning a boat are outrageous, and you will resent every dollar unless you love the boat."

Truer words never spoken.

My version of it is only slightly different. I say -- I always knew that a boat was a "hole in the water you throw money into", but no one ever told me how much pleasure it gives to throw all your money into that hole! It's half the fun!

[camtep]

Thanks Dockhead. Your words and those of your brother-in-law are certainly true.

[Randyonr3]

Petmac
Ran the numbers on the Bermuda 40.. comes in really close to my First 42.. except My 42 weighs in a a little more.. across the scale mine weighed in at 24k but its an owners version with a few extras.and mines about a foot longer, so we'd have to adjust for that...
In reading I found the fuel at 48 and the water at 110 is a little light for a world cruiser..
Not knocking your boat, she's a bueaty.....But she's also far from a heavyweight, infact, she's in the lower area of a middle weight...

[Randyonr3]

actually there is some pretty interesting reading on the Bermuda 40.. seems she was designed as a "Gentelmans" Ocean Racer back in the 60s and has won a number of Open Ocean Races........seems like she's a wolf in sheeps clothing..
Great boat........

[StoutWench]

My wife and I cruised for 3 years ('06,'07,'08). In '05 we purchased an '83 Brewer 42 for $106,000 and spent $35k to completely refit her. My wife and I did 100% of the refit. We considered a new boat but felt a quality older boat that just needed upgrading was far more economical.

We now have an excellent blue water cruiser with all new electronics, rigging, wiring, etc for just $141k. We would have paid double that for a comparable new boat.

Another advantage of doing the refit yourself, when something break, you know exactly how to fix it or where to find the problem. We intimately know every inch of her and that has come in handy numerous times.

Just my 2 cents.

[Boracay]

To my way of thinking buying a big boat is only justifiable if it's going to be used full time.

Your $200k well invested is going to cover the cost of just about any charter that you will want over the next 10 years, and the money will most likely still be there when you want it.

The $50k in costs that you'll probably save each year, compounded over the next 10 years, may be able to buy the one of the best cruising boats available and the time that you're not fixing a boat could keep your bosses very happy.

[Hornloaded]

Originally Posted by Boracay

To my way of thinking buying a big boat is only justifiable if it's going to be used full time.

Your $200k well invested is going to cover the cost of just about any charter that you will want over the next 10 years, and the money will most likely still be there when you want it.

The $50k in costs that you'll probably save each year, compounded over the next 10 years, may be able to buy the one of the best cruising boats available and the time that you're not fixing a boat could keep your bosses very happy.

Not buying a boat, is NOT an option for me. I sail my boat at least twice a week and we go out to the Islands at least 10 - 12 time a year, Mexico once a year. I will sail the bigger boat all the time. And I will have it tricked out to single hand.
I just got confirmation that the sale is final, so now the fun begins.

[camtep]

Originally Posted by Randyonr3

Petmac
Ran the numbers on the Bermuda 40.. comes in really close to my First 42.. except My 42 weighs in a a little more.. across the scale mine weighed in at 24k but its an owners version with a few extras.and mines about a foot longer, so we'd have to adjust for that...
In reading I found the fuel at 48 and the water at 110 is a little light for a world cruiser..
Not knocking your boat, she's a bueaty.....But she's also far from a heavyweight, infact, she's in the lower area of a middle weight...

Thanks for the compliment Randyonr3.
Don't know where you got your numbers but no two B40's are alike. Water tankage in my Mark III sloop is 150 gallons and fuel is 72 gallons. I have two fuel tanks,a 48 gallon and a 24 gallon. My carbon spar is 4 1/2 ft higher than a normal Mark III and she carries as much sail as a SW42. She is a heavy displacement boat.

A few comments about Bermuda 40's from a couple of published sources :

From Practical Sailor re the Hinckley Bermuda 40 :
"Critics are quick to complain that other builders produce boats that are just as good for less money.More often than not,these sentiments are just sour grapes from people who can't afford a Hinckley or even a different brand of comparable quality.While we acknowledge that there are a few builders around the world which build boats to the same exacting level,Hinckley is nonetheless unique in North American boatbuilding."
Practical Sailor concluded:
"Obviously,Hinckleys aren't for everyone.They are expensive and only you can decide whether the many little quality details are worth the cost. As one owner said,"The B40 is to be bought on the day that the full significance of 'you only have one life to live' becomes clear."

Jack Horner wrote in his boat review:
"The Bermuda 40 is a quintessential example of Tripp's art and masterful eye for near-perfect balance.I think it can be said safely that this boat has stood the test of time,and,although the design is now 40 years old,many people,myself among them,still consider the Bermuda 40 one of the most beautiful yachts afloat."
In conclusion Hornor writes:
"The bottom line is these are very expensive boats,but they do retain their value exceptionally well and under some market conditions may even appreciate in value.They're out of my range of affordability but I can still dream of someday being able to own one or,better yet,design a boat of such lasting beauty."

Ferenc Mate' wrote of the B40 :
"without question the greatest fiberglass boat of all time"

John Kretschmer wrote in his Used Boat Notebook:
"If you have $150,000 to spend,would you rather have a beautifully reconditioned 1975 B40 or a new 32 foot ABC production boat ? Which boat will be worth more in five years ? Which boat would you rather sail ?"
He also writes "From the recessed,frameless portlights to the custom-made stainless steel deck fittings,to the lovely toerail,the boat drips with quality."
"Construction quality is what you pay for: Hinckleys really are built to a very high standard."
"Few boats have held their value over the years like the B40s. Financially, I'm convinced you would be better off spending $150,000 on a 25 year old B40 than a new,off-the-shelf production boat." (A bit redundant but he mentions this twice in his review)

Charles Doane wrote in The Modern Cruising Sailboat :
..."one could easily buy a brand-new boat that sails faster and has more living space for about the same price or even less. Still,I feel the B40 is an excellent value. It serves well as both a coastal or bluewater cruiser and is excellent in shoal-water grounds such as Chesapeake Bay or the Bahamas.Most examples that come on the market are in very good condition,as it takes a callous owner to neglect a boat like this.Because they are so beautiful and so well built B40s hold their value much better than comparably priced new boats."

I've never read a bad review on these boats. They are a much better value than many new boats. They also hold their value. Jeez....you'd think that I was a Hinckley broker.

[camtep]

Originally Posted by Randyonr3

Petmac
Ran the numbers on the Bermuda 40.. comes in really close to my First 42.. except My 42 weighs in a a little more.. across the scale mine weighed in at 24k but its an owners version with a few extras.and mines about a foot longer, so we'd have to adjust for that...
In reading I found the fuel at 48 and the water at 110 is a little light for a world cruiser..
Not knocking your boat, she's a bueaty.....But she's also far from a heavyweight, infact, she's in the lower area of a middle weight...

Not that it matters but on Yachtworld listings,the First 42 is 18,600 lbs. The Hinckley Bermuda 40 Mark III is 20,000 lbs. A loaded boat is always heavier as mine is 25,000 lbs.
Capsize screening value (CSV) of a First42 is 1.99. The Bermuda 40 Mark III is 1.73. Any number of 2 or less indicates a boat that is sufficiently self-righting to go offshore.The further below 2 you go,the more self-righting the boat is.

[barnakiel]

Get the one your heart desires.

Old boats can be as good as new ones. Can be better, or worse too - all depends on original build quality and the maintenance the boat receives.

I have a 30 y.o. GRP boat that started circumnavigating when she was 25, and I have seen older boats (some from the late 60'ies) in great shape.

b.

[StoutWench]

As I stated in a previous post, your best value is in an older boat. My wife and I got onboard numerous older boat and found the boat that felt the best for us. After decididing on a Brewer 42, we started looking for one that was structurally sound but in bad need of an upfit. Everything on the boat we purchased was outdated, but we had 18 months before we intended to crusie. We now have exactly what we want.

If you really want to crusie, the upfit will be a labor-of-love. As barnakiel stated "Old boats can be as good as new ones".

[Curmudgeon]

I wouldn't mind an older boat from the guys at the other end of Bass Harbor Road either.

[Brent Swain]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Stop posting pornography on here. That is one gorgeous boat.

"My brother-in-law, an experienced sailor, gave me good advice. He said, don't buy a boat unless you love it, because the costs of owning a boat are outrageous, and you will resent every dollar unless you love the boat."

Truer words never spoken.

My version of it is only slightly different. I say -- I always knew that a boat was a "hole in the water you throw money into", but no one ever told me how much pleasure it gives to throw all your money into that hole! It's half the fun!

My "Hole in the water " has let me live on a month's wages a year for decades. If I didn't have my "Hole in the water" to live in I would have thrown a lot more money in the other holes.

[Sail IC]

I wonder if we often kid ourselfs when looking at time tested. We look at the 1968 beutifully restored Ford Mustang and then we compare it with the 2 year old beaten up car rental Mustang. We think in the old days they really knew how to build cars when in reality the new one has far superior reliability and will last many more miles.

We look at the 25 year old boat and think, it looks great despites it being 25 years and think it will easely go another 25 years. Then we look at the 5 year old one. Its not as shiny as the new one on the boat show, and we get worried about the quality.

People write alot about how well heavy and sturdy old boats are built, but where lies the costs of maintaining a boat. Its not structural but all the systems. Hoses, wires, nav equipment, sails, standing/running rigging, rudder bearing, etc, etc. All of these has a live time, and a 25 year old boat will require far more repairs/exhanges as a five year old. Isn't here where the costs are.

In 15 years that 2004 Beneteau 42CC will be time tested and viewd as one of these great old boats. Its will look very different to new boats year 2025,, but it will appeal to some people. That 40 year old C&C Landfall will look very very old. Even if its been beutifully maintained, it will be very difficult to sell. Old classics like a Bermuda 40 will still have a market, but not more mainstream boats.

My take is the Beneteau 42CC will provide a much more trouble free ownership and the C&C Landfall will be much more expensive overall.

Cheers

[Curmudgeon]

It depends on how well the older boat has been maintained. Suppose the older boat had a complete refit last year?

Besides, we are not comparing boats of equal quality when new. A 25 year-old Hinckley or Morris is going to be better, on average, than a 25 year old Hunter or Beneteau.

Evaluate the 2004 Beneteau 42CC as compared to a Morris 42 built in 2004. That's a fair comparison.

At least with the Morris I don't have to worry about sanding off the veneer when refinishing the interior joinery.

Let me add that the automotive analogy is misleading here. The 25 year old Hinckley offered for $250K is probably not a "restored" boat. It is more likely an upgraded boat. If you took that 25 year-old Mustang and dropped in a modern suspension, transmission, engine and instrument package it would drive just as well as the newer mustang, and at least it wouldn't have the fake hood scoop for the nonexistent turbocharger.