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Old 05-06-2010, 13:06   #136
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Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
My "Hole in the water " has let me live on a month's wages a year for decades. If I didn't have my "Hole in the water" to live in I would have thrown a lot more money in the other holes.
I really like the way you put that Brent.

Dave
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Old 05-06-2010, 16:07   #137
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Sorry, but I just don't see it. That boat is 40 years old and overpriced at that! We just sold our 1983 Niagara 31 for about that price, and although I haven't actually seen this boat, from the pictures ours was a much better deal and 13 years younger. Nothing wrong with the boat per se, but it is 40 years old and at that price I'm sure you can do better. In the past three years we've bought two used boats, and I agree there is no reason to buy a new boat with the inventory of used to choose from and they are so much cheaper.

As for looks, well it looks like a 40 year old boat and if you like that look o.k.. I just like something a little more modern.
Well, it has just come on the market. Who knows if it is overpriced? Neither of us has seen it. I will tell you that those S&S designed Tartans are sweet boats. There was one parked next to me this winter-- a 1974 I believe-- and it looked brand new.

I would take either the Niagara 31-- which is a German Frers design if I'm not mistaken-- or the Tartan 34 over any new Hunter or Beneteau of comparable length-- and I'd pocket 125-150K in the process.
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Old 05-06-2010, 16:56   #138
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Originally Posted by Joli View Post
1984 Cantieri Navali Ambrosi Scia 50 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

I can't believe this one hasn't sold. Good looking boat that could go anywhere.
How many times did you pimp that thing out here, Joli?
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Old 06-06-2010, 08:41   #139
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I would take either the Niagara 31-- which is a German Frers design if I'm not mistaken-- or the Tartan 34 over any new Hunter or Beneteau of comparable length-- and I'd pocket 125-150K in the process.
Its an odd syndrome I see here, and you see it in some everywhere..
The guy that drives a 4x4 chevy that bad mouths the hummer, the guy on the Honda that put down Harley riders, the power boater that give crap to the sailboater and the reverse, the sailboater that wouldnt go near a power boat..
I dont dispise you guys, just feel sorry that your mind is so closed that you wont accept another brand of boats, for any reason..
That attitude will eat you up inside, and the reality of it is, your voice probably wont deture anyone from buying a Beneteau or a Hunter..
and another fact,
My Beneteau is a German Frers design....small world, hey
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Old 06-06-2010, 09:39   #140
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the guy on the Honda that put down Harley riders,
Build quality of a Honda and a Harley is like comparing a Model T Ford. and an Ipod

I've got a Triumph (900cc of Triple ) and a Vespa (125cc of Italian style , no brainer commuting and free parking )..........neither of which have Honda reliability or build quality............but they (like the Harley?) have something that money and engineering can't give you - soul
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Old 06-06-2010, 10:21   #141
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Build quality of a Honda and a Harley is like comparing a Model T Ford. and an Ipod


What about comparing a 1969 Ford Mustang convertable (RED) against a new Korean Hyundai?

Have I told you my Mustang story?


OK, I'll cut to the chase...

I had to drive a Mustang for 3 weeks at high speed incuding lots of burnouts and fun stuff.

I would VASTLY prefer to own Hyundai.

A lot has changed in automotive engineering since 1969 and the old mustang just dont hold it like any new vehicle... comfort, ride, electronics, sound audio and noise, power steering, electric windows, road holding, safety... the damn lot!
The Mustang was fun to drive for an hour or 2 but then my arms were aching and my legs near dead....

So, I understand lots of people prefer the classic cars and live by them still, however theres a new world out there now.

I don't denigrate those folks who stand by the old ideas if thats what they like, but there comes a time when we gotta move on.

Sure some people could maintain a 1970's boat just fine, but hell, 3/4 of the population under 45 years old has never had to polish their shoes let alone a boat! They have never had to starch and iron a shirt let alone smooth on varnish so it glistens. Hell, half the under 45's have never even washed a car, it just goes into the car wash. And these people are expected to maintain a 1970's boat? Its just aint gunna happen.


We worked all our (shorter) lives to get the money to go buy a boat and race off into the sunset wile our parents are shaking their heads in disbelief... why would we want to waste our mid life crisis on a varnish pot and brush?





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Old 06-06-2010, 10:33   #142
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I had to drive a Mustang for 3 weeks at high speed incuding lots of burnouts and fun stuff.

I would VASTLY prefer to own Hyundai.
Yep! I'll agree with that. My Hyundai (and it IS a red one) goes for servicing etc once a year. Back in the 80s I owned a Toyota that got serviced every quarter. More bits got replaced and oil changes were more frequent. The Toyota was amongst the most reliable of cars in the 80s, but this Hyundai NEVER breaks down. The nearest it came was several years ago when a temperature sensor went and I was driving round with the automatic choke stuck open. The dealer fixed it in 15 minutes.

Improvements in lubricants, materials science and electronics make today's car vastly more reliable than that of 20 years ago and infinitely more reliable than those of 30 years ago.

Why shouldn't it be true of boats as well? Think of any other product that has been around for decades and compare the modern version with the older one and the modern one is a big improvement.
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Old 06-06-2010, 11:40   #143
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I would VASTLY prefer to own Hyundai.
Not knocking the Hyundai or Honda. or Beneteau. I might be on for a quick whiz into Europe by Motorbike this year. I'd love to take a Honda sports tourer. A Blackbird Especially as I've always had a thing abou....err...wrong forum

I appreciate that design, technology and build quality moves on. In addition to the 40 yo boat I've got an Ipod .......even if I don't know how to use all the functions nor care much. But I love both, just for different reasons.

I'm glad I didn't buy a Beneteau though. Cos' then I would have no excuses for not actually going anywhere by boat
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Old 07-06-2010, 13:43   #144
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We worked all our (shorter) lives to get the money to go buy a boat and race off into the sunset wile our parents are shaking their heads in disbelief... why would we want to waste our mid life crisis on a varnish pot and brush?





Mark
Well, you just have to work hard enough to pay someone else to maintain the brightwork-- or else paint it. Varnish isn't the only solution, just the traditional one.

I would argue that many older boats have fewer maintenance issues since they were better built in the first place. You jut have to find one that has been well maintained.
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Old 09-06-2010, 13:01   #145
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I think the OP bought a boat and went sailing...

Last year, we bought our 1989 Cambria 46, and we are the third owner. The surveyor said replacement value was five times what we paid, just to give an idea of the difference between an older, top quality boat and the equivalent new boat.

Most of the systems were original and still worked, which is what I wanted, because I wanted to pick and install, or have installed, just exactly what I want in terms of new gear. We figured it would take about three years of money and work to get her where we want in terms of reliability, and we're about halfway along that time line.

I'm going to retire in December, and then gradually spend more months at a time cruising. I fully expect to spend 2-3 hours a day on preventive maintenance and various repairs, but I will know every inch of her by then, and as well klnow her systems, since I selected them.

I guess this is about the 70th post on this thread, and there are probably even more opinions than that expressed here...
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Old 10-06-2010, 03:53   #146
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Build quality of a Honda and a Harley is like comparing a Model T Ford. and an Ipod...
Having both Japanese and American brands (and having ridden and rebuilt Limeys, the real ones, for many years… some time ago), and riding about 25-40K miles a year recently, I’ll quibble just a smidgen – it’s more like comparing paper or plastic (bags, that is). Both work almost indefinitely for the task intended, but depending on the audience the other is not socially acceptable… Mechanically somewhat different, but either is far more durable than most think and although I’ve seen numerous Japanese brands attempt to emulate the Harley, I don’t recall ever seeing Harley attempt the reverse (unless you consider the V-Rod; somewhat accepted in Europe but still doing the dead-cat-bounce in the US…). Although entertaining, brand parochialism (whether on land, air or water) is far too subjective to be argued with any serious logic…

Although my Chevy IS better than your Ford, or maybe it’s the other way around… can’t recall…
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Old 11-06-2010, 05:28   #147
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In post 64 Brentswain refers to the early approaches to building boats with fibreglass. In my experience, fibreglass boats were built with THICK fibreglass - due to the lack of trust in the materials - and are therefore sturdier and stronger than modern boats.

I owned an Oldsmobile 98 (1982) for 7 years. It cost $1500. I spent about $300 dollars a year on maitenance. The car weighed two tons, and in a country where locals drive like lunatics at breakneck speeds, I only ever saw one of these tanks damaged - the boot was squished where a bus had rammed into it on the expressway. A modern car would have been crumpled like a chocolate wrapper.

Yes, it required more care than my newer cars. But in the long run (and the short run) it was a darn sight cheaper, much safer, and had masses of character.

Just buy the boat that you love. With cash. At the moment you should be able to afford to buy one off someone else who couldn't afford to pay off their loan. Or do as we did - offer to pay installments. For a year, we turned over my entire salary to the previous owner and lived off hubby's.
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Old 11-06-2010, 06:15   #148
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. A modern car would have been crumpled like a chocolate wrapper.

.
Thats what it is designed to do. The crumpling protects the folks inside


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Old 11-06-2010, 06:55   #149
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Considerable thread drift going here. The original question was about age of boat to get now for plan to cruise in 10 years. (Let's put aside the important question of whether the style boat one would choose today will still be a good choice for you in 10 years?)

I say it doesn't matter. Even if you buy a new boat now it's an old boat in 10 years -- all the "systems" will be in need of major maintenance or replacement.

So the real question is whether the hull will be sound in 10 years. Barring lightning, collision, hurricanes and going aground -- that's a crap shoot. I think chances are better if the boat is solid fiberglass/steel/aluminum or well-constructed foam core (not wood core), epoxy or vinyl ester vs. polyester. But it also depends on how it is maintained, and whether new holes are made carefully to reduce risk of leaks.

A "beater" with a sound hull, decent engine and minimal systems is the best $ value. But the boat that you look at with love is the one for you.

Boat ownership is irrational, so just buy the one that appeals to you and make up a bunch of BS to rationalize it. Then throw time and money into it.
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Old 11-06-2010, 09:01   #150
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In that case, I recommend getting a steel boat. If you don't like what you have in 10 years you can always melt it down and fashion it into a new one.

But seriously, it depends on what you want to do, how much cash you have, and everyday you are talking on this forum is a day missed sailing.
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