older really strong boat or newer not-so-strong

[anacapaisland42]

and up to the mid 70's

Originally Posted by markpierce

Over-built fiberglass boats were built in the sixties.

[jasbee]

We had a 12 ton timber built (carvel built in NZ) double ender Gauntlet design which we had originally bought in 2002. She had been launched in 1978. In 2008/09 we carried out an extensive upgrade before leaving NZ in 2011. Eventually arrived in Krabi, Thailand in 2014.
People think that wooden boats need a lot of maintenance, but if they are well looked after this is a fallacy. Decks might need re-caulking now and again, but that's true of any teak-decked boat. With the standard of paint available these days you do not need to paint them every year.
She looked after us through thick and thin, but she has now been sold. I still get a tear in the eye when thinking of her and I hope that she is enjoying her new life.
I would buy another timber built boat like her in a heart beat - if I was younger!!

[kas_1611]

Thing is a modern boat might sound "under built" but with improvements in design, materials technology and build technics they can be stronger than older "bomb proof" vessels.

Modern GRP is better laid and constructed thanks to improvements in design and techniques so doesn't have to be 3 inches thick to have the same structural rigidity and strength, in fact a little bit of yield can make for a more resilient structure.

Modern extruded aluminium masts are stronger than older versions of the same design while carrying less weight. Teflon bearings last longer with much less friction than steel bearings. New electronics draw less current than older, new batteries last longer and can withstand much deeper discharge than older ones.

Just because a vessel was built in the 60's does not necessarily make it stronger or tougher than a 2018 model. Even 2 boats from the same builder from the same year can have totally different characteristics so don't pre judge a book by the cover so to speak.

Sure my Bavaria Cruiser 40, while rated as open ocean capable, isn't the sort of boat I'd want to sail around the southern oceans in she'd be more than happy at crossing the Atlantic or sailing the Caribbean. We've weathered 50kts and thunderstorm squalls in her with no issues or damage and she's battered her way through some pretty angry seas in the Med. Our friend with a Hallberg Rassey sometimes runs for cover in 30kts but I'm sure his boat would be more than safe in severe conditions.

Sometimes the weak link is the boat but more often it is the soft pink thing at the helm that's the problem.

[Robert E]

I depends. In deciding either a newer boat or older one for long-distance cruising, I would prioritize the issues as follows; the design and the designer, the builder and the amount of time effort and money to bring the vessel to safety and functionality. By functionality I mean comfort of living and sailing the boat and its ability to meet the conditions you will be confronted with.

We have refit and updated six boats three small ones and three large cruising boats. A favorite was the center cockpit Norseman 447 which required a major refit. But we love the design and functionality. The hull and deck were sound and the electronics, while older, were of high quality. After selling her in 1996 she was sailed around the world and after another refit is now sailing out of San Francisco. A fine boat and extremely well-built. One of Bob Perry's best designs.

No matter the design however, the builder is central in our thinking about whether to buy a boat. There are lots of good designs that are badly put together. The same applies to newer vessels. You might start by finding a design with the accommodations and functionality that appeal to you and then begin your exploration from this point.

We wish you much luck and happy sailing.
Bob and Jan, S/V Shamrock

[captmikem]

Just sent you a PM

Fair winds

M

[SuW]

Something like that nice Bayfield 40 in Toronto (on Kijiji.ca) or that gorgeous Hans Christian 43 that came up here a few days ago?

An older boat that has been looked after, would be desirable, imo.

[Matt Johnson]

Originally Posted by kas_1611

Thing is a modern boat might sound "under built" but with improvements in design, materials technology and build technics they can be stronger than older "bomb proof" vessels.

Modern GRP is better laid and constructed thanks to improvements in design and techniques so doesn't have to be 3 inches thick to have the same structural rigidity and strength, in fact a little bit of yield can make for a more resilient structure.

Modern extruded aluminium masts are stronger than older versions of the same design while carrying less weight. Teflon bearings last longer with much less friction than steel bearings. New electronics draw less current than older, new batteries last longer and can withstand much deeper discharge than older ones.

Just because a vessel was built in the 60's does not necessarily make it stronger or tougher than a 2018 model. Even 2 boats from the same builder from the same year can have totally different characteristics so don't pre judge a book by the cover so to speak.

But you'll always have people wax poetic about their 2" chopped mat hull all while looking down at "weak" modern cored s-glass

Matt

[Qayaq]

To me if I was buying an older boat and didn't want to end up with a massive refit on my hands I would want to know that the following items are in good condition, IE they have been removed, inspected and hopefully documented in the vessels recent past. Keel bolts, Rudder and stock, chain plates and and mounting points, mast not corroded, thru hulls replaced, engine newer than original, osmosis succesfully treated. Tanks in good condition.
Older boats can be great but they can also be a significant drain on finances and your time.
Nearly finished the refit on my Valiant 32 now..... ho hum.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by ThaidUp

Just joined the forum, nice to be here. Been sailing in fresh water for about 40 years plus 7-8 Caribbean charters. Now looking for a blue water boat initially to hone my skills but eventually for long passages (don't want to upgrade later). Any advice as to whether it's better to buy an older boat, say a 90's Pacific Seacraft, Valiant, Gozzard, etc. or a newer, say 2010 Tartan, Catalina, Beneteau? I like skeg rudders, keel stepped masts, and not too beamy, but a newer boat with those is out of my budget. I think most will say buy the boat built better in the first place, but I'd like to hear from some of the newer boat folks too.

If there were only a bunch of threads just like this

Just get the boat you like and don’t worry about whether there are “stronger” boats unless you are planning to just routinely run hard aground and into reefs.

[Going Gaugain]

I am going through similar process. I sold my "production boat" and have been searching the world for the right bluewater sailboat with plans for 7 year circum navigation. I have looked at Valiant, Hylas, Tayana, Oyster and Hallberg Rassy, and Discovery Vessels.
The purschase cost is about 2/3 of the equation. You have to factor in where do you want to buy the boat? Start in Europe? East Coast west coast. Carribean Malaysia? The tax consequences: VAT paid ?, local sales tax (California and Seattle 10%!, RI 0%, Maryland 5%).
Then go through every possible system that is on the boat or will need to be on the boat for intended purpose . How many hours on Engine? genset? Standing Rigging? A/C, age of Sails cost of all new batteries, safety systems, recert of life raft, solar and wind upgrades . Watermaker ? Condition of hull! New seacocks, ...on and on.
Make an Excel spread sheet for each vessel. Then compare bottom line with taxes, boat and all upgrades, repairs refurbishments. It is a very enlightening experience.

[wrwakefield]

ThaidUp, Welcome to the forum. [Most of us don't bite...]

We went through the same considerations just a few years ago as we prepared to retire and get our 5th [and final?] cruising sailboat.

My experience is, with your stated budget, you might find far better value in a somewhat older, well found and proven boat that has been well outfitted and maintained by previous owners who could afford to do so— and did on a continuing basis...

This is precisely what we found, but it took time, diligence, and concerted effort...

It sounds like you have enough experience to know what you like and don't like about the boats you have been on.

Therefore, my suggestion is forget the older vs. newer litmus test and instead work out a requirements [wishlist initially] 'balance sheet' [spreadsheet with colums, or?] of specifics you:

• Must have [Necessities]
• Would like to have ['Niceities']
• Are undesirable [Would rather not have]
• And things absolutely do not want [Showstoppers]

Just do a brain dump, and don't worry about prioritizing until much later— after you refine and solidify your requirements...

Don't forget to include considerations that may be unique to various regions you may plan to visit on your boat. [e.g., heat, air conditioning, watermaker, etc.]

As you work through it, I suspect you will find 'not so strong' landing in the showstopper column.

Using us as an example, and having owned several well found blue water cruising sailboats in the past, we were pretty focused with our list for our [hopefully last] boat: [Note, we prefer higher latitudes]

Must have:

• 40-52 ft monohull [40' is our lower limit of full time livability, and 52' is max comfortable single-handing]
• Indoor and outdoor steering stations [e.g., pilothouse]
• Well found, great sailing— and motoring— blue water proven [we ended up with an S&S designed hull]
• Aluminum or FRP
• Skeg hung rudder
• Fin or Modified fin keel [and if FRP- with external lead ballast]
• Pilot house must be main living quarters with direct view of outdoors from seating positions [We want to see where we are, not the inside of our boat...]
• Well maintained, with everything documented
• Central heat
• Generator
• Watermaker
• Low hour naturally aspirated diesel engine
• Etc.

Nice to have:

• Washer/dryer [score]
• Air conditioning [scored again]
• Etc.

Won't buy:

• Teak deck [a beautiful but ultimately expensive liability as a boat ages]
• Major repairs [e.g., hull damage, etc.]
• Project boat
• Cored deck or hull [of FRP boat]
• Etc.

As you can see, even our superficial example list really narrows our focus to a selection of not too many choices. This led us to specific manufacturers and models [that matched both our budget and all requirements].

We spent over two years only looking at a handful of specific models. [3]

We found exactly what we wanted, but only because we never deviated from our requirements. [No compromises once your requirements are finalized. None...]

Best wishes figuring out— and finding— exactly what you are in search of...

Cheers! Bill

[hellosailor]

I think everything is a tradeoff. If you buy a boat built in the 80's or 90's, there are a good number with early model turbo-diesel engines on them. Volvo mechanics will often tell you to run away, all the early turbo diesels were crap and couldn't carry on the way plain old diesels did. And any newer diesel might have electronic systems--which are great but they totally defeat the purpose of "it's a diesel, it doesn't need electricity".

Some of the design changes that have become normal over the years have made later model boats damned attractive compared to the older ones, especially the ones with traditional interiors built by, well, maybe home framing carpenters? Nav stations same and went, some folks would say there's no need for them now, everyone uses a chartplotter at the helm. Maybe. Maybe not.

There's no denying that some designs (a shallower if not full keel, and a rudder on a skeg) outperform others (fin keel and spade) in some circumstances, but everything is about balance. I think pretty much ANY well built boat can do the job. All will have compromises, but if the structure is good and the price is right...You may be better off making up a short list of "deal breakers" and just ignoring the boats that have those items.

[Ken Z]

A stronger boat is a must, problem being the care and maintance and love makes or breaks the deal. I have seen 15 yr. old boats that have suffered situations that caused damage and am amazed at the extent of the damage, of course pieces and parts have a major issue with replacement, all boats need tlc and that is a balance point.

[Cheechako]

I think part of a "strong" boat is a well constructed, but also forgiving design; Protected/supported rudder, long keel for grounding etc, heavy constructed rig...
But that certainly doesn't mean you cant go in a fin keel/spade rudder bendy boat. And there are some comforts in those boats.
I have personal knowledge of fin and spade boats with damaged rudders requiring replacement and of significant damage from simply hitting a rock. There is a difference. But it's really about your philosophy.
I rarely see a boat from the 70's that has much going for it. There was a lot yet to learn in the 70's, add 4 decades to that and..... 80's getting there too, but it was kind of the heyday for cruiser boats.

[Ramona]

Originally Posted by ThaidUp

So if you're going from Mexico to Australia you'd recommend a 1968 Hinckley over a 2010 Beneteau? I know it depends on how she's outfitted but I can upgrade/refit/replace everything but the hull, so that's why I'm asking.

Lots of these boats end up sold in Australia. Peruse the secondhand yachts for sale in Australia and New Zealand that have been sailed out here and see what choices have been made previously.


https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/kool...ina/1203043745


https://yachthub.com/list/yachts-for...g-built/224245