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Old 04-05-2012, 18:48   #76
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Re: Older glass boats

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Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
READ my whole posts...never said just blisters or delam would sink the boat...but tyake one to sea enough that has severe delam and ya just never know...
I read it, I read it, already; -)

But you asked why so many are unconcerned about blisters and I just proposed one reason that might be why.

I am unconcerned about MY blisters because I have a 68 Cal 28 with a monster thick hull and only superficial blisters.

There are so many other issues that could become a problem before the blisters ever do her in, it just isn't enough bang for the buck to address them.

I understand that other boats and other sailors have different degrees of compromise and concern ; -)
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Old 04-05-2012, 20:02   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld

READ my whole posts...never said just blisters or delam would sink the boat...but tyake one to sea enough that has severe delam and ya just never know...

And maybe most of those boats ARE one breath away from sinking..without a close inspection that I am and so is that one marina recommending...

Another that accepts status quo so easily...

One more time for the cheap seats...don't feel sorry for me...I caught it before it became a sinking...mine will be better than new and have better resale over the unknown boat, don't panic...look for it whenever you ARE below the gel coat...but don't be a fool and sand/soda blast the paint down to the gel without ABSOLUTELY looking further...otherwise you'll just be wasting your money (except on relativly new boats).
I have been waiting and waiting for the other shoe to drop. You have done a great job raising awareness. I just haven't figured out what course of action you propose or recommend?

Peel off some layers during surveys?

My plastic boat and nine others like it were laid up in the early 80s - mine is an 81. They have all stayed in the waters of Singapore for 31 years. These are not dry sailed boats and they are all the exact same model. Mine has some bubbles above the coping near the cockpit. Have been there since I bought the boat 6 years ago. I have anti-fouled 3-4 times and the bottom is as solid as a rock.

All I am saying is the thing missing in all the analysis is that some boats get sick and some boats don't and probably never will - to the point that they are at risk of sinking. If mone did I would scrap it. Nothing lasts forever, even plastic.
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Old 05-05-2012, 04:29   #78
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Re: Older glass boats

[QUOTE=Ex-Calif;944939]I have been waiting and waiting for the other shoe to drop. You have done a great job raising awareness. I just haven't figured out what course of action you propose or recommend?

Peel off some layers during surveys?

My plastic boat and nine others like it were laid up in the early 80s - mine is an 81. They have all stayed in the waters of Singapore for 31 years. These are not dry sailed boats and they are all the exact same model. Mine has some bubbles above the coping near the cockpit. Have been there since I bought the boat 6 years ago. I have anti-fouled 3-4 times and the bottom is as solid as a rock.

All I am saying is the thing missing in all the analysis is that some boats get sick and some boats don't and probably never will - to the point that they are at risk of sinking. If mone did I would scrap it. Nothing lasts forever, even plastic.[/QUOTE]

Not according to the chemists. ALL boats will get sick...it's just a question of when. Hydrolysis is occuring on EVERY fiberglass boat.....just some are imperceptable.

But like the cancer analogy....many researchers claim that ALL men would die of prostate cancer if they lived long enough...but many die of something else first as sarafina pointed out.

Now again I'm gonna prove that I'm not all about screaming panic...heck...if you keep your boat out of the water...it won't hydrolyze at all...

I'm gonna worry less about my boat not only because I plan to keep my boat in warm/cool waters by following the moderate weather north and south. I don't plan on letting it sit in hot, southern canals or harbors where hydrolysis runs wild. That was one of my early statements...that's it's certain conditions that are worth noting WAY more than the general run of the mill boat.

So yes...if your boat SEEMS sound...and you aren't parked in hot water all year or pull it every season...sleep a little easier. If not...be aware of what you can't see.
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Old 05-05-2012, 05:02   #79
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Re: Older glass boats

Since owning boats, steel and glass I as well as most owners know all boats are repairable, its just a matter of cost. If you need to get someone else to do the work its going to cost LOTS and LOTS of $$$$. If you do it your self it will cost LOTS less.
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Old 08-05-2012, 12:30   #80
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Re: Older glass boats

WOW! Lots of information here, quite a bit of it naive. What must be understood is that most blisters are caused by wicking into the glass fibers (skin coat, random fiber chopped strand mat used to prevent "print thru" of the heavier structural glass layers) through the gel coat, which is somewhat porous. This skin coat layer is non-structural. Without the fibers, there is no wicking. Where the fiber ends touch the porous membrane, there is water ingress. Polyester resins will eventually break down in water but without the wicking action this degradation process is VERY slow. Proper repairs will all but eliminate blister problems but most of the time the corrct procedures are not followed, resulting in a recurring issue. We have several boats that we did in the early 80's that still look good. So it is possible, just not common due to incompetence.
We used to do a lot of Albin warranty work in the 80's and the delaminations shown above were not common but when we saw them they were always the result of laminating "out of window" that is - when working with polyester there is a critical time frame between layers of glass going in the mold. At 76 degrees this window is around 5 to 12 hours for most resins. If you wait too long between laminations there is no real bond and if water enters between layers the hydraulic action will further the delam. Water ingress between these layers was usually found to be rudder ports, struts, thru hulls, etc. rather than blisters.
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Old 11-05-2012, 07:44   #81
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Re: Older glass boats

I believe if you think too much and too often about one thing, paranoia sets in.


I got the message -- Hydrolysis happens!!!


I appreciate the information shared here, all very good.


But if one is to be so scared of hydrolysis and afraid the boat may sink because of it, why not get steel or a wooden boat? But then again one may worry about rust, teredo worms, etc.
Psneeld – What do you suggest we do to check how bad or how good our boats are?
My boat was built in the late sixties, it doesn’t have any blisters and is solid as a rock – as I read your posts you are suggesting I still need to break my hull to check for and fix the effects of hydrolysis?


I don’t mean to be sarcastic (perhaps I do), but if I tell my physician to operate on me to check for terminal diseases he will recommend me to a different kind of doctor to check my head instead.
Don’t we need to have symptoms before we seek a treatment? I mean, how proactive do we need to be? Lets not lose sight of the ultimate goal - to live our lives – sailing
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Old 11-05-2012, 16:40   #82
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Re: Older glass boats

Quote:
Originally Posted by SVTatia View Post
I believe if you think too much and too often about one thing, paranoia sets in.


I got the message -- Hydrolysis happens!!!


I appreciate the information shared here, all very good.


But if one is to be so scared of hydrolysis and afraid the boat may sink because of it, why not get steel or a wooden boat? But then again one may worry about rust, teredo worms, etc.
Psneeld – What do you suggest we do to check how bad or how good our boats are?
My boat was built in the late sixties, it doesn’t have any blisters and is solid as a rock – as I read your posts you are suggesting I still need to break my hull to check for and fix the effects of hydrolysis?


I don’t mean to be sarcastic (perhaps I do), but if I tell my physician to operate on me to check for terminal diseases he will recommend me to a different kind of doctor to check my head instead.
Don’t we need to have symptoms before we seek a treatment? I mean, how proactive do we need to be? Lets not lose sight of the ultimate goal - to live our lives – sailing
paranoia...yeah.... the last 3 days on my back and a thousand dollars worth of resin and glass to buld bach over a 1/4 inch of hull that ripped away by hand...maybe bad layup/repair...but with signs of hydrolysis over the entire hull...you guess...

go sailing the rest of us have work to do....
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Old 12-06-2012, 16:40   #83
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Wow lots of info on the subject. The boat I'm looking at now is a late 90's to early 2000's. Vacuum bagged, no mat and no polyester.
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