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Old 03-05-2012, 12:17   #61
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Re: Older glass boats

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Originally Posted by FloridaWriter View Post
David Pascoe should be required reading prior to ever talking to a boatyard about blisters: Boat Hull Blisters : Failed Blister Repairs by David Pascoe, Marine Surveyor
That is an interesting article . IMO well worth a read.

The problem I have (with any stuff like this) is that it does sound very reasonable - until I read something that says something different, that also comes accross as very reasonable . Double that problem if what is said agrees with my understanding (as this article does) when my "understanding" is on the thin side. Triple it if it's also something I want to hear........
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Old 03-05-2012, 18:08   #62
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Re: Older glass boats

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I only know enough to know that I don't know enough about it to form an opinion. So I rely on the experts to educate me. Warning, the following link leads to a discussion hosted by a boat yard. If you believe all boat yards are run by bandits only out for your money then avoid clicking. However, they have a very good reputation around here (I don't work for them and don't keep my boat there - too expensive). Also, if you are set in your opinions and get all angry and post flamey comments when they are challenged, don't click. The link is only for those of open mind who wish to be informed. I don't claim it is correct information. It is just one reference to add to the others in order to make an informed decision.

http://www.zahnisers.com/blisters_hydrolysis.htm

For what it's worth, my new to me boat has blisters, but I got it cheap. The worst offenders were ground out, filled and faired with Vinylester resin. If I could afford a full bottom job, I would do it. However, I beleive the risk versus reward is small enough for cruising in the Chesapeake. At a minimum, I plan to get a reputable surveyer to sound the hull before taking it offshore (if I get to that point). I would also give an exploritory windowing a serious think. Everyone reading this would probably take a different approach (from slightly to drastic) depending on their own risk versus reward comfort level.

To the OP, my opinion is that yes an effective cure is available. However, the "right" way involves lots of time and money. Any classic plastic can have the potential for blisters (in my opinion) since it relies on boat history and not just manufacturer reputation. Your best bet (as in some risk is always involved) is to get a reputable survey and not just the cheapest guy found in the yellow pages (insert internet if you don't know what yellow pages are).

cas
That link is the closest to the truth as I know it and verified outside the marine field by the composite tank/piping industry.

Plus I'm living it!!
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Old 03-05-2012, 20:24   #63
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Re: Older glass boats

Nice link CAS. Thanks for the info.
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Old 03-05-2012, 22:44   #64
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Re: Older glass boats

I suppose things like this are important if you own big, nice boats. Makes sense. I made a big leap once and bought a 27 footer, thing was way too big and too much trouble. I like small, cheap boats, and I like camping out on a boat not feeling like I am at home ( course I am still young and spent most of my adult life as an army infantryman, anything beyond a foxhole is pretty nice as far as I am concerned).
In the end, a water saturated fiberglass hull may leak water into the interior, you may get water droplets on the inside of the hull....but the thing is still a linear fiber resin barrier...it is still strong and can take a hell of a beating.
Blisters may be ugly, they may slow you down a bit, but they won't sink your boat.
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Old 04-05-2012, 04:25   #65
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Re: Older glass boats

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I suppose things like this are important if you own big, nice boats. Makes sense. I made a big leap once and bought a 27 footer, thing was way too big and too much trouble. I like small, cheap boats, and I like camping out on a boat not feeling like I am at home ( course I am still young and spent most of my adult life as an army infantryman, anything beyond a foxhole is pretty nice as far as I am concerned).
In the end, a water saturated fiberglass hull may leak water into the interior, you may get water droplets on the inside of the hull....but the thing is still a linear fiber resin barrier...it is still strong and can take a hell of a beating.
Blisters may be ugly, they may slow you down a bit, but they won't sink your boat.
If you can rip the laminations off by hand...YOU sail it ...not me....

Why is it so hard for people to accept? Seems like people always argue that theirs is OK or the best as if because they would be ashamed to admit they made a mistake or bought a lesser product.

I accept the fact that my hard earned money bought a boat that with problems....even with all my experience and the experience of a surveyor. I'm not ashamed that I missed something that is almost impossible to detect until you drastically core or grind.

Just like the link said...

And as I said...my boat may have gone another 30-??? years and never sunk because there was one last lamination holding the ocean out. Sorry...just don't want to live aboard and cruise a boat that's holding on for dear life....so I'm taking the time to reapir it correctly so I get another 15-20 years out of her...after that I consider her a throwaway if the problem returns with a vengence.
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Old 04-05-2012, 04:57   #66
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This article and its impending doom made my wallet hurt! Thanks good info though.
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Old 04-05-2012, 07:38   #67
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Re: Older glass boats

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Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
Why is it so hard for people to accept?
I am quite happy to accept that this is what happens, I just don't think it is serious enough in most yachts to worry about it. You talk about tearing the layers off the hull by hand. Having inspected a plug cut out for a new sounder the layers are perfectly bonded together to the point you couldn't see the join. there is no way I could tear a layer off my hull and I suspect this applies to most well made yachts.

Yes there is a problem, but it needs to be kept in perspective and allowances made that there are alot of people in the boat industry who would like to make some serious cash out of it.

Pete
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Old 04-05-2012, 10:05   #68
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Re: Older glass boats

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Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
Why is it so hard for people to accept?
I am quite happy to accept that this is what happens, I just don't think it is serious enough in most yachts to worry about it. You talk about tearing the layers off the hull by hand. Having inspected a plug cut out for a new sounder the layers are perfectly bonded together to the point you couldn't see the join. there is no way I could tear a layer off my hull and I suspect this applies to most well made yachts.

Yes there is a problem, but it needs to be kept in perspective and allowances made that there are alot of people in the boat industry who would like to make some serious cash out of it.

Pete
That perspective goes right out the window when it's YOUR boat.

I have replaced 4 through hulls in my boat and filled in 5 no longer needed holes...grinding down around the thru hulls gave me NO clue to other major areas of delam.

While I'm not saying panic...a more assertive look every chance you get could ward off major damage and is ABSOLUTELY necessary to inspect the hull under the gel coat of older boats prior to barrier coating if you are thinking about it.
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Old 04-05-2012, 11:16   #69
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Re: Older glass boats

[QUOTE=psneeld;944604]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete7 View Post

That perspective goes right out the window when it's YOUR boat.

I have replaced 4 through hulls in my boat and filled in 5 no longer needed holes...grinding down around the thru hulls gave me NO clue to other major areas of delam.

While I'm not saying panic...a more assertive look every chance you get could ward off major damage and is ABSOLUTELY necessary to inspect the hull under the gel coat of older boats prior to barrier coating if you are thinking about it.
Exactly!

To the person with cancer it's "... hey people, don't be so damn complacent. You could have cancer and not even know it yet..."


To the person without cancer it's "... so far so good. I feel sorry for them but I hope like hell I never get it..."

Not necessarily a head in the sand attitude.
More like "I'd rather be out there enjoying myself than sitting here worrying if I'm going to get cancer".
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Old 04-05-2012, 14:13   #70
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Re: Older glass boats

[QUOTE=VirtualVagabond;944651]
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Originally Posted by psneeld View Post

Exactly!

To the person with cancer it's "... hey people, don't be so damn complacent. You could have cancer and not even know it yet..."


To the person without cancer it's "... so far so good. I feel sorry for them but I hope like hell I never get it..."

Not necessarily a head in the sand attitude.
More like "I'd rather be out there enjoying myself than sitting here worrying if I'm going to get cancer".
Bad analogy....unless you never get "checked" for cancer...all I'm saying is look further than your bottom paint every once and awhile.

What you are saying is EXACTLY the "head in the sand" approach if you never check on things...who said worry about it????...
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Old 04-05-2012, 14:49   #71
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Re: Older glass boats

[QUOTE=psneeld;944746]
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Originally Posted by VirtualVagabond View Post

Bad analogy....unless you never get "checked" for cancer...all I'm saying is look further than your bottom paint every once and awhile.

What you are saying is EXACTLY the "head in the sand" approach if you never check on things...who said worry about it????...
You did. Maybe not in as many words but it's been the thrust of every post you've made here.
We all feel sorry that you're going through this, and we appreciate the warning. Most of us will probably check a little closer now, but not sure we need the "you've all got it to some degree and it's just a matter of time..." approach.

By the way, checking for cancer has little to do with preventing most cases, unless you somehow think you can choose your cancer. You can't check for brain tumours, pancreatic, stomach, bone, lung, liver, etc. Checking for prostate, bowel and skin cancer is just routine maintenance.
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Old 04-05-2012, 15:00   #72
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Re: Older glass boats

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Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
Why is it so hard for people to accept? Seems like people always argue that theirs is OK or the best as if because they would be ashamed to admit they made a mistake or bought a lesser product.
Because the marinas are full of fibreglass hulled boats that haven't sunk and been hauled off, no matter how bad the harbour master wants 'em to?
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Old 04-05-2012, 15:09   #73
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Re: Older glass boats

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Originally Posted by FloridaWriter View Post
David Pascoe should be required reading prior to ever talking to a boatyard about blisters: Boat Hull Blisters : Failed Blister Repairs by David Pascoe, Marine Surveyor
Bookmarked. Thanks.
Looks like some good info.
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Old 04-05-2012, 16:53   #74
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Re: Older glass boats

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Because the marinas are full of fibreglass hulled boats that haven't sunk and been hauled off, no matter how bad the harbour master wants 'em to?
READ my whole posts...never said just blisters or delam would sink the boat...but tyake one to sea enough that has severe delam and ya just never know...

And maybe most of those boats ARE one breath away from sinking..without a close inspection that I am and so is that one marina recommending...

Another that accepts status quo so easily...

One more time for the cheap seats...don't feel sorry for me...I caught it before it became a sinking...mine will be better than new and have better resale over the unknown boat, don't panic...look for it whenever you ARE below the gel coat...but don't be a fool and sand/soda blast the paint down to the gel without ABSOLUTELY looking further...otherwise you'll just be wasting your money (except on relativly new boats).
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Old 04-05-2012, 17:19   #75
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Re: Older glass boats

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New to the forum, but not to sailing. I've recently completed building and launching a Herreshoff Coquina (1889 cat ketch daysailer). My wife and I are talking about a cruising sailboat @ 35' or so. Lots of used boats out there that I like with traditional looks.
After reading about blisters and hydrolysis I'm a bit concerned and want to learn more. Are some years or manufactures more or less prone to this? Are the "cures" really effective?
I have a 1972 S&S designed 37 foot sloop that had blisters when I bought it back in the early nineties. Lots of blisters all over. I sanded and peeled thru the first layer (chopped mat) Steam cleaned the bare fiberglass and let it dry in the summer time under a temporary "house" that I built to cover the entire boat.
First coat of clear epoxy (Interlux 1000) Wash out amine blush and sand to knock down any fiberglass hairs that might poke thru and lead to wicking.
Second coat of 1000 following wash and sand. lastly 7 coats of Interlux 2000 one after the other with no sanding in between(while the epoxy is still green)
This was coated with 5 coats of ablative bottom paint in different colors. The boat has been in the water mostly(Northeast) since then. Blisters have not returned. Some day I will scan and post the pictures of that summer of hell.
The temperature outside was in the high nineties and steam cleaning inside the tent way over a hundred. The hardest part was the fiberglass itch and the back ache.
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