Older boats as projects?

[Zach]

Restoring cars... gotta get practice for boat project management somewhere. It helps when wedged under the cockpit, to remind yourself its more comfortable there than under a dashboard!

Nice Cobra!

[Joli]

True enough, you have to start somewhere but I've seen so many half finished, totally ruined boats that I really caution those with limited skills and resources from taking on a project boat.

I don't think there is anything sadder then seeing someone give up their dreams beacuse they became discouraged and gave up the rebuild. Just off the top I can think of a Whitby 45, a Gulfstar 50, a OI 51, where the owner sold the boat for pennies on the dollar and never enjoyed sailing it. That's a tradgedy that maybe would not have happened had they bought a boat that did not need so much time, money, or skill to rebuild.

Anyway, lovely car!

Cheers Joli

Originally Posted by imagine2frolic

JOLI,

No doubt Scott is extremely capable. The proof is in the pics, but you have to start somewhere.

Some people build their own homes, cars, etc. etc. For them it is the work of thier own hands, and the knowledge of the project. When my business justifies building a car for 45k that I can buy for 35k. I will take the loss for the satisfaction of the build, and for it to be MINE!

[imagine2frolic]

Joli,

I agree with you totally. You have to hand people reality checks. Sometimes you have to give them a pat on the back too, and a word of encouragement. In all these years I too have seen the bone yard of broken dreams. Not everybody has the fortitude to carry on, and, or sometimes the cash too!

Unfortunately it's not my car yet, but thanks for complimenting my next project! The goal is a slab side with a low 271HP 289ci, as original as I can make it. The shop progress depends on if it will be fiberglass, or aluminum.

[SkiprJohn]

Just from my experience. Cheoy Lees are beautiful but do have fiber over ply cabins which sometimes rot and their teak decks leak like horizontal screen doors. If some of that is already rebuilt then I'd say go for it. If it is in sailing condition then I'd say go for it. Sail a little, work on it a little, sail a little more and then work a little.
I made the mistake of buying a deserted/trashed boat that was not in sailing condition without the time to really dedicate to finishing her. It'll be in the water in a couple years but geez what an effort without any of sailings true pleasures. Gettin' too old for these kind of projects!
Kind Regards,
JohnL

[drew.ward]

One thing thats being missed here: For many of us, buying a cheap boat and working on it over several years is the only way we can gain entry into the yachting world. I'm in my early 30's and I have yet to find a job that actually paid enough that I can even think of ever coming up with 50K+ for a ready-to-go boat. And I know way more people of my generation who are in this boat than not.

I don't know what exactly is going on with the whole American dream thing, but being part of the first generation expected to not come close to doing financially as well as their parents -- it ain't fun.

So for me, I buy a cheap boat. I know it will take years to get her where I want her, but at least with a project I can save for this meter, or that pulley or what have you and make some progress.

It may not be the best option, but for many of us it's the only option we've got.

[imagine2frolic]

drew,

Good for you, you got to live within your means, and you sound like you have your head on your shoulders. I look at projects like bank accounts. I have had my share of them, because I couldn't afford to pay in full

[Jolly Roger]

That's a fair point Drew, and like I said at the beginning of this thread, it's the main reason people buy projects. This has added attraction if the boat is able to be lived on, thereby reducing accommodation costs. The secret has to be finding a project which one can realistically complete in the timeframe, (years) and with the cash available, and not have over optimistic ideas. For those who wish to go this route there is the Project Boat website at http://www.yachtworld.com/projectboats/index.html which has plenty of boats by people who clearly could not complete them.

[ssullivan]

Drew,

I was b*tchin' about this YEARS ago on here. lol

I'm in your same age bracket and don't really enjoy the cards we've been dealt either.

I wish I could dig up some of my old posts more easily. I went on and on several times about how we:

*Pay more for housing, cars, energy, food and everything else than those who came before us, even in infaltion-adjusted dollars
*When compared to what we pay, we make *singificantly* less income than those who came before us (even adjusted for inflation)
*Most of us are highly eductated, so we had high expectations in life... but instead find that society is more interested in cheap labor or service sector jobs like "janitor" or "WalMart associate." However, we did come out of all that schooling with $30-$60K in debt. Wow... $30-$60K in student debt PLUS we get to have raised expectations for our careers. Great...
*The inflated house prices are more than any other generation before us has ever paid, when compared to salaries.
*Same story with boat prices - more than any other generation compared with salaries.
*We are the first generation where our parents want to "spend it all, so there will be none when they die"... funny... they all inherited something from their "Greatest Generation" parents and were able to parlay that into success. Not so for us.
*And in my own personal case, I got nothing but food and clothing growing up. Nothing. No help at all in life. Without some support, you can't quite get into Harvard... and if I did, I'd probably have even larger student loans... haha

I could go on and on, and have... many people on the forum are older, so they have trouble seeing the cards we were dealt. I think a few have spotted the societal trends that have stuck us where we are though. Those are the wise ones.

Anyway, as much as I enjoy living on boats, living in a house I owned might be a nice thing too. Too bad I'll never be able to (unless I'm willing to work 30 years full time just to pay the house off, not counting taxes, living expenses, zoning, etc...)

Man... you opened up a can of worms. I'm still pretty upset about the cards our generation was dealt.

The difference between us and GenY is that they have lower expectations. They don't have anything, and don't want it either. We were given a little taste of good times in the 90's and I, for one, liked it!

What really gets me is how people like myself (fairly well educated), good with computers and Physics, have all the skill in the world to help our country out of its current rut... but... if course the country doesn't want us. It would rather farm out to India, China, or wherever because we are "too expensive."

Fellas... I think capitalism is sputtering these days in its current encarnation in the USA. It's not making the most efficient use of its resources, which, I think... is what capitalism is supposed to do best in theory, right?

Ok, sorry for the thread hijack. Drew just really hit a nerve... and old nerve that goes way back and one you can see my whining about on this forum for years. ha ha

Originally Posted by drew.ward

One thing thats being missed here: For many of us, buying a cheap boat and working on it over several years is the only way we can gain entry into the yachting world. I'm in my early 30's and I have yet to find a job that actually paid enough that I can even think of ever coming up with 50K+ for a ready-to-go boat. And I know way more people of my generation who are in this boat than not.

I don't know what exactly is going on with the whole American dream thing, but being part of the first generation expected to not come close to doing financially as well as their parents -- it ain't fun.

So for me, I buy a cheap boat. I know it will take years to get her where I want her, but at least with a project I can save for this meter, or that pulley or what have you and make some progress.

It may not be the best option, but for many of us it's the only option we've got.

[ssullivan]

Oh yeah... the *one* thing we have going for our generation?

When we go into retirement homes to die, there will be about a billion free rooms from the baby boomers before us. At least we'll die cheap. lol

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by Jolly Roger

the Project Boat website at http://www.yachtworld.com/projectboats/index.html which has plenty of boats by people who clearly could not complete them.

Wow!, their is stuff on their to tempt a nun

At the moment I am "deciding" between a 35 Halberg Rassy Rasmus from the early 70's and a 40' Wooden Grand Banks from the 60's.....all needing a "little TLC".......

But this too shall pass

[Zach]

Originally Posted by drew.ward

One thing thats being missed here: For many of us, buying a cheap boat and working on it over several years is the only way we can gain entry into the yachting world. I'm in my early 30's and I have yet to find a job that actually paid enough that I can even think of ever coming up with 50K+ for a ready-to-go boat. And I know way more people of my generation who are in this boat than not.

I don't know what exactly is going on with the whole American dream thing, but being part of the first generation expected to not come close to doing financially as well as their parents -- it ain't fun.

So for me, I buy a cheap boat. I know it will take years to get her where I want her, but at least with a project I can save for this meter, or that pulley or what have you and make some progress.

It may not be the best option, but for many of us it's the only option we've got.

I'm 20. I spent 4k on my 28 footer, plus about a thousand to get it off the dock in Maryland, and another grand in dockage, parts, and goodies on the way down. Since last august and have been kicking myself for not saving up three times as much and snagging one someone plowed 30k into restoring. I have a hundreds in sandpaper, resin, and a few hundred hours... and she's still coming apart. At some point making 12-15 bucks an hour isn't such a bad deal while eating ramen to make the dream happen. Twenty hours every weekend since august, and most of the cash made since then... plus 8 hours driving, and gas. Yes, that means 50 bucks in gas, and a total of 28+ hours of driving and working from Friday night to Saturday afternoon. Convert those hours, and gas, and the abrasives, solvents, resin, and parts into overtime and savings... it doesn't take very long to amass a boat fund, if you go at it with the same passion as what it takes to see progress after you buy one.

Knowing what I know now that is exactly what I would have done. I have a boat, but I haven't been sailing since August. Quite frankly, overtime or a second job isn't a bad idea, when the alternative is grinding fiberglass while wedged into a cockpit locker.

The American dream is still around... its just the American dream prior to the invention of the desk job.

Boats are only worth what the market will pay, even if they have chart plotters, radar, and a brand spanking new diesel... they still band plus or minus X thousand from the worst shape to the best. The best, in respect to the amount of time and money towards parts that it took to get them to that point are cheap! Heck, just counting the dollars someone else had to pay to uncle sam to make the cash, and then spent on sales tax is a massive sum.

Now women on the other hand... those are expensive.

[anotherT34C]

ssulivan, Americans who position themselves as skilled professionals are doing quite well. The unskilled and the working (semi-skilled) class, not so much. Go to law school. Or engineering school. It doesn't matter how old you are anymore. We're expected to change careers (not just jobs) several times in life.

Sorry for the diversion. Hard not to do.

[ssullivan]

Originally Posted by anotherT34C

ssulivan, Americans who position themselves as skilled professionals are doing quite well. The unskilled and the working (semi-skilled) class, not so much. Go to law school. Or engineering school. It doesn't matter how old you are anymore. We're expected to change careers (not just jobs) several times in life.

Sorry for the diversion. Hard not to do.

While I'm pretty much trained the way you are, as a professional researcher - Physics and worked for NASA on FAST, CLUSTER and ACE missions, also studied plasma physics at the grad level... that makes 2 of us.. ha ha...

While I'm trained the way you are, I can't imagine you think someone would be "doing quite well" if they went to school a 2nd time.

Do you know what school costs? I'm assuming you do. Did you pay for it 100%, or did you have it paid for or get money from relatives?

Makes a big difference when you look at your financial picture.

I don't even want to get into the fact that society now "expects" people to change careers several times. Do you know what that costs? That is another thing that will keep the people who weren't born with a silver spoon in their mouths down. Re-training several times is a terrible concept, financially.

I would also disagree sharply with you on the point that "semi-skilled" people are not doing well. If you take the lifetime income of say... an electrician or something who is my age, then take the income of your average college graduate at my age, you will find the electrician more often then than not, has a higher net worth. (excluding stupid purchases they might tend to waste money on) Why?

They worked all those college years and also didn't start life $30K in the hole from going to college in the first place.

I know where your post comes from... I have lived the life you live in the past. But if you really look at the numbers, and not just the feeling you have working at a great research job (which is quite rewarding), you can't argue the data. Going to school several times is a killer on the net worth side of things.

[dcstrng]

Originally Posted by Zach

I have a hundreds in sandpaper, resin, and a few hundred hours... and she's still coming apart... Convert those hours, and gas, and the abrasives, solvents, resin, and parts into overtime and savings... it doesn't take very long to amass a boat fund, if you go at it with the same passion as what it takes to see progress after you buy one...

Every generation faces their own unique set of challenges and stumbling blocks, of course; however, in the main they don’t differ drastically when one actually recalls (excepting generations that had to put up with major long-lasting depressions or world wars…) the essence of the obstacle. Likewise, the remedies don’t seem to differ conceptually a whole lot either… at least in the boating realm…

In this era where the “average” boat/yacht (if the slick copy advertisements, and some skippers are to be believed…) seems to punch a serious hole in seven-figures, it is all too easy to forget that the generation that now seems to require such conspicuous opulence cut their teeth much lower on the food chain… Completing bare hulls, or occasionally refurbishing decaying wooden “classics”, was the order of the day thirty-forty years ago, and it seemed like almost every sunny marina had a half-completed Piver multihull lurking somewhere – a testament to those whose hair really was on fire… we lived in old school/VW buses and dreamed dreams like any other… but despite good educations (and skills on occassion) there was a huge gap between where we thought we wanted to go and the resources apparently required, so for the most part we went with what we had, momentarily changing the rules a tad – and occasionally scaring society and ourselves in the process…

Project boats fit the bill… of course, some will be reabandoned (having provided momentary amusement, if not status), a few will be brought back to original factory finish as the untried skipper learns new skills, a very few will be rehabbed to a pristine level beyond the wildest fantasies of their designers (true testaments of nautical art ); however, more than likely most that actually get competed (is a boat every complete) will settle into a level of finish somewhere between work-boat and comfy utilitarian; passing the twenty foot test (looks great from twenty feet away) and generally seaworthy, but would be an embarrassment at the yachtie concours…

I don’t remember who said it, but I recall something from one of the older boating tomes that there is “nothing quite so much fun as messing around with boats…” some prefer the check-book/second-mortgage method and enjoy little more connection to that floating chunk of high-tech resin than a summer charterer, some truly become one with their vessel, preferring the sweat-equity method -- and most of us settle into a nervous combination of the two…

[drew.ward]

I can def side with sully on this.

The ONLY people I know who are doing well in life are those whose parents paid for college and who received some major assistance upon graduating. Whether mom and dad paid off their debt, gave them seed money for their first business, forked over money for a new car and downpayment on a house, etc. I went to Tulane and was the odd man out usually because most people there go down to New Orleans, do their 4 years of school, then go back to NY or wherever to take their gimme job at their family's business or dad's lawfirm or whatever.

I'm not saying that it's bad that these guys have gotten that big hand out early in life. Good for them. But for the rest of us expected to do all of this on our own, the numbers just aren't working.