Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 13-09-2017, 15:48   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 6
Older balsa cored hull?

I'm considering a 1987 S2 35c which is in great condition. Being new to sailing, I'm seeking advice about the hull on this vessel. My questions are as follows:

1) Do any of you know the specific hull construction methods of this hull? Is it fully cored? Is there solid glass at the keel or anywhere else? Did they use end grain balsa?

2) Should I be Leary of a vessel if this vintage with a balsa core? I've read that they use different methods today than they did then, and that the new methods are better.

3) Should I worry about a bolt-on keel on a balsa cored, 1987 boat, or am I being paranoid?

I've researched what I could online, but the consensus seems to be split right down the middle. Thanks!
__________________

KingBuffalo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-09-2017, 16:03   #2
Senior Cruiser
 
Steadman Uhlich's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Crewing All of 2018 Available Globally
Boat: OPB = Available as Crew in 2018
Posts: 5,700
Re: Older balsa cored hull?

Howdy and Welcome Aboard CF!

The topic of "Cored Hulls" has come up several times on CF.

Here are some previous discussions, where you can find a mix of experiences and opinions.

https://cse.google.com/cse?cx=011403...ull&gsc.page=1

Hope that helps you.
__________________

__________________
Ahoy All Sailors! Need experienced crew for a passage or delivery in Atlantic, Pacific, Caribbean, Med, PNW, ICW, coastal or across an ocean anytime in 2018? I am available on 24hr notice. See my CF Profile "About Me" page for details. Happy to lend a hand!
Steadman Uhlich is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 13-09-2017, 16:23   #3
Registered User

Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 391
Re: Older balsa cored hull?

The keel on this boat is encapsulated, not bolted on. I wouldn't right it off due the balsa cored hull. Just have your surveyor pay close attention around thru hull fittings. S2 made quality boats and should have installed these fittings appropriately.


Good luck with your search.
Drew13440 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-09-2017, 17:41   #4
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 19,248
Re: Older balsa cored hull?

I assume the hulls are solid where the factory thru hulls are?
If so any thru hulls that are not factory should bear closer inspection?
a64pilot is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 13-09-2017, 18:25   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Sarnia ON
Boat: S2 9.1
Posts: 65
Re: Older balsa cored hull?

Having done a lot of repairs and coring replacement on S2s and other similar boats I can tell you that in some cases they where well built but other boats by the same Manufacturer same production line can have a number of original defects due to poor workmanship.
If you are buying any cored boat I would strongly recommend that every square inch of deck and hull be tested with a moisture meter and also a percussion test.

This is the school of hard knocks talking
Gary Mc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-09-2017, 20:48   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Deale, MD
Boat: North End Marine - Stellar 30
Posts: 127
Re: Older balsa cored hull?

I have a 1984 balsa cored boat with a bolted on keel.

The price was right when I bought it, and after owning it for 3 years, I haven't found, or seen anything to make me think I shouldn't have bought it.

Yes, there should probably be a discount for an uncertain construction technique, but assuming you're getting that discount (compare it to an equivalent boat that's not balsa cored, are you paying less? I'm assuming you are because this is the boat you've landed on as it probably represents the best value for money you've found) and you do proper due diligence on that particular boat (closely inspect the hull, especially around any and all through hull fittings) and you'll likely be happy.
mogulskibum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-09-2017, 21:15   #7
Registered User
 
gamayun's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Oakland, CA
Boat: Freedom 38
Posts: 1,495
Re: Older balsa cored hull?

I have a 1988 Freedom, which is a balsa core design on the deck and is the type of boat that many people say should be avoided. What I believe is that it really depends on how the deck fittings were done. If the original was solidly constructed and the fittings well bedded, then the balsa should be dry. If the OP has made a lot of changes and has not bedded the fittings well, then this could cause water ingress. If it is the latter, this also may not be too bad, if caught soon and corrected before too much damage; so again, it just depends.
gamayun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-09-2017, 22:26   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 6
Re: Older balsa cored hull?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mogulskibum View Post
I have a 1984 balsa cored boat with a bolted on keel.

The price was right when I bought it, and after owning it for 3 years, I haven't found, or seen anything to make me think I shouldn't have bought it.

Yes, there should probably be a discount for an uncertain construction technique, but assuming you're getting that discount (compare it to an equivalent boat that's not balsa cored, are you paying less? I'm assuming you are because this is the boat you've landed on as it probably represents the best value for money you've found) and you do proper due diligence on that particular boat (closely inspect the hull, especially around any and all through hull fittings) and you'll likely be happy.


No discount. Seller is asking 46k for a well cared for S2 35c in very good condition. I'm looking with the eyes of a know-nothing noob though. I'll be living aboard and the layout is awesome for that. Also, I've heard mostly positive reviews on the builder and the hull design.
KingBuffalo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-09-2017, 22:29   #9
Registered User
 
UNCIVILIZED's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Up the mast, looking for clean wind.
Boat: Currently Shopping, & Heavily in LUST!
Posts: 5,629
Re: Older balsa cored hull?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingBuffalo View Post
I'm considering a 1987 S2 35c which is in great condition. Being new to sailing, I'm seeking advice about the hull on this vessel. My questions are as follows:

1) Do any of you know the specific hull construction methods of this hull? Is it fully cored? Is there solid glass at the keel or anywhere else? Did they use end grain balsa?
On most boats with cored construction there's solid glass in the high load areas, which would include around the keel & it's support structure. But you'll want to check, & also have the surveyor check to be sure. And it's common, though not universal, to have solid glass in areas such as where the through hulls, & keel bolts, etc. are.

2) Should I be Leary of a vessel if this vintage with a balsa core? I've read that they use different methods today than they did then, and that the new methods are better.
Some which were built well are in great shape, assuming they were well taken care of. Others not so much. Which you'll want to vet your surveyor, particularly in the area of their knowledge & experience level having to do with cored construction.

3) Should I worry about a bolt-on keel on a balsa cored, 1987 boat, or am I being paranoid?
In this case it's called prudence, & wisdom Much as it would be were you buying an older classic car of similar vintage.

I've researched what I could online, but the consensus seems to be split right down the middle. Thanks!
Do some studying on marine surveys, as well as on thermal imaging. Both here on the forums, & online. Since such are what you use to ensure that a boat is solid, structurally, & that the important maintenance has been done. Boatpoker is a member here on CF who's a surveyor, & his website's worth a look. Along with many books on surveying older boats, & online articles. Don Casey's written one on evaluating older boats which is held in pretty high regard, & it's aimed at folks with almost all levels of boat knowledge & experience, including those with very little.
https://www.amazon.com/Inspecting-Sa...ords=don+casey

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_s...=2LKL3ZZBZHYMC
__________________

The Uncommon Thing, The Hard Thing, The Important Thing (in Life): Making Promises to Yourself, And Keeping Them.
UNCIVILIZED is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-09-2017, 22:33   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 6
Re: Older balsa cored hull?

Will the surveyor be able to detect any moisture infiltration in the hull? I guess my biggest concern is that there might be damage in the hull core that won't be found until the hull is cooked. I'm probably paranoid but this will be my first big boat and I'm not wealthy.
KingBuffalo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-09-2017, 22:35   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 6
Re: Older balsa cored hull?

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
I assume the hulls are solid where the factory thru hulls are?
If so any thru hulls that are not factory should bear closer inspection?


I don't know and I haven't been able to find any info about the specifics of construction methods. That's why I'm asking here.
KingBuffalo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-09-2017, 00:24   #12
Registered User
 
UNCIVILIZED's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Up the mast, looking for clean wind.
Boat: Currently Shopping, & Heavily in LUST!
Posts: 5,629
Re: Older balsa cored hull?

A good surveyor will be able to determine most of these things while surveying the boat. Do some reading as I suggested, & you'll see this. You might also look online & see if there's an owner's group for these boats. Since if there is, the odds are that they'll know quite a bit about them, & be able to fill you in on many details of the boat. Though if you do some searching on here, there are a few S2 owners who also may be able to help. But in the big picture self education on boats & surveys is the best choice, since as a boat owner you'll be working on all kinds of aspects of the boat & her systems.
In additon to Don Casey, start reading Nigel Calder as well. Especially his Boat Owner's Mechanical & Electrical manual.

EDIT:
Here's one S2 owner, & thread. There are others as well. S2 9.2A Poor Pointing Ability ??
Another --> Epoxy resin to help waterproof the wetted area?
__________________

The Uncommon Thing, The Hard Thing, The Important Thing (in Life): Making Promises to Yourself, And Keeping Them.
UNCIVILIZED is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-09-2017, 04:43   #13
Senior Cruiser
 
GordMay's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 32,274
Images: 240
Re: Older balsa cored hull?

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Buffalo.
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-09-2017, 11:51   #14
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: New Zealand
Boat: Moana 33
Posts: 838
Re: Older balsa cored hull?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingBuffalo View Post
No discount. Seller is asking 46k for a well cared for S2 35c in very good condition. I'm looking with the eyes of a know-nothing noob though...
No discount??? 1987, "excellent layout"... you make it sound as though you really like this boat, which is great - no point making an offer otherwise. But my understanding of boat-buying is you make an offer (subject to survey, sea trials, clear title, etc, etc). Owner (or broker) laughs at your ridiculous offer, then two weeks later, or maybe two months later, the seller accepts your offer. Or else you negotiate a price, still subject to survey, etc.

The above is a terrible generalisation (some owners actually ask a reasonable price, instead of the blatant oversell that most brokers seem to ask) but too many newbies rush in thinking the boat of their dreams will be gone if they hesitate, and sometimes that's what happens, so you go looking again and find there are many boats for sale and most take about a year or more to find a buyer.

A good surveyor will help with estimating a reasonable price once the survey is done, perhaps make contact with one now - until then it's up to you to determine what is a reasonable offer.

There has been one or two threads here where someone thought they were buying a boat from a friend, only to find they bought a 'pup'. Maybe ask a knowledgable friend to look at the boat with you.
NevisDog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-09-2017, 20:03   #15
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 6
Re: Older balsa cored hull?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NevisDog View Post
No discount??? 1987, "excellent layout"... you make it sound as though you really like this boat, which is great - no point making an offer otherwise. But my understanding of boat-buying is you make an offer (subject to survey, sea trials, clear title, etc, etc). Owner (or broker) laughs at your ridiculous offer, then two weeks later, or maybe two months later, the seller accepts your offer. Or else you negotiate a price, still subject to survey, etc.



The above is a terrible generalisation (some owners actually ask a reasonable price, instead of the blatant oversell that most brokers seem to ask) but too many newbies rush in thinking the boat of their dreams will be gone if they hesitate, and sometimes that's what happens, so you go looking again and find there are many boats for sale and most take about a year or more to find a buyer.



A good surveyor will help with estimating a reasonable price once the survey is done, perhaps make contact with one now - until then it's up to you to determine what is a reasonable offer.



There has been one or two threads here where someone thought they were buying a boat from a friend, only to find they bought a 'pup'. Maybe ask a knowledgable friend to look at the boat with you.


What I mean by "no discount" is that the asking price is similar to other boats of this size and vintage. I will use the surveyor's expertise as far as what I will offer.
__________________

KingBuffalo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
core, hull

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sunken balsa cored sailboat islandbowy1978 Boat Ownership & Making a Living 25 11-02-2016 01:43
Balsa Cored Hulls azsailor12 Construction, Maintenance & Refit 28 02-03-2014 18:25
Duflex (Balsa cored panel construction) Questions. Zach Multihull Sailboats 29 08-01-2014 23:54
balsa cored hull sailorboy1 Construction, Maintenance & Refit 68 20-03-2013 16:06
Balsa-Cored Bottoms Joe S Multihull Sailboats 53 21-09-2010 18:50



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 19:57.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.