Older balsa cored hull?

[KingBuffalo]

I'm considering a 1987 S2 35c which is in great condition. Being new to sailing, I'm seeking advice about the hull on this vessel. My questions are as follows:

1) Do any of you know the specific hull construction methods of this hull? Is it fully cored? Is there solid glass at the keel or anywhere else? Did they use end grain balsa?

2) Should I be Leary of a vessel if this vintage with a balsa core? I've read that they use different methods today than they did then, and that the new methods are better.

3) Should I worry about a bolt-on keel on a balsa cored, 1987 boat, or am I being paranoid?

I've researched what I could online, but the consensus seems to be split right down the middle. Thanks!

[Steadman Uhlich]

Howdy and Welcome Aboard CF!

The topic of "Cored Hulls" has come up several times on CF.

Here are some previous discussions, where you can find a mix of experiences and opinions.

https://cse.google.com/cse?cx=011403...ull&gsc.page=1

Hope that helps you.

[Drew13440]

The keel on this boat is encapsulated, not bolted on. I wouldn't right it off due the balsa cored hull. Just have your surveyor pay close attention around thru hull fittings. S2 made quality boats and should have installed these fittings appropriately.


Good luck with your search.

[a64pilot]

I assume the hulls are solid where the factory thru hulls are?
If so any thru hulls that are not factory should bear closer inspection?

[Gary Mc]

Having done a lot of repairs and coring replacement on S2s and other similar boats I can tell you that in some cases they where well built but other boats by the same Manufacturer same production line can have a number of original defects due to poor workmanship.
If you are buying any cored boat I would strongly recommend that every square inch of deck and hull be tested with a moisture meter and also a percussion test.

This is the school of hard knocks talking

[mogulskibum]

I have a 1984 balsa cored boat with a bolted on keel.

The price was right when I bought it, and after owning it for 3 years, I haven't found, or seen anything to make me think I shouldn't have bought it.

Yes, there should probably be a discount for an uncertain construction technique, but assuming you're getting that discount (compare it to an equivalent boat that's not balsa cored, are you paying less? I'm assuming you are because this is the boat you've landed on as it probably represents the best value for money you've found) and you do proper due diligence on that particular boat (closely inspect the hull, especially around any and all through hull fittings) and you'll likely be happy.

[gamayun]

I have a 1988 Freedom, which is a balsa core design on the deck and is the type of boat that many people say should be avoided. What I believe is that it really depends on how the deck fittings were done. If the original was solidly constructed and the fittings well bedded, then the balsa should be dry. If the OP has made a lot of changes and has not bedded the fittings well, then this could cause water ingress. If it is the latter, this also may not be too bad, if caught soon and corrected before too much damage; so again, it just depends.

[KingBuffalo]

Originally Posted by mogulskibum

I have a 1984 balsa cored boat with a bolted on keel.

The price was right when I bought it, and after owning it for 3 years, I haven't found, or seen anything to make me think I shouldn't have bought it.

Yes, there should probably be a discount for an uncertain construction technique, but assuming you're getting that discount (compare it to an equivalent boat that's not balsa cored, are you paying less? I'm assuming you are because this is the boat you've landed on as it probably represents the best value for money you've found) and you do proper due diligence on that particular boat (closely inspect the hull, especially around any and all through hull fittings) and you'll likely be happy.

No discount. Seller is asking 46k for a well cared for S2 35c in very good condition. I'm looking with the eyes of a know-nothing noob though. I'll be living aboard and the layout is awesome for that. Also, I've heard mostly positive reviews on the builder and the hull design.

[UNCIVILIZED]

Originally Posted by KingBuffalo

I'm considering a 1987 S2 35c which is in great condition. Being new to sailing, I'm seeking advice about the hull on this vessel. My questions are as follows:

1) Do any of you know the specific hull construction methods of this hull? Is it fully cored? Is there solid glass at the keel or anywhere else? Did they use end grain balsa?
On most boats with cored construction there's solid glass in the high load areas, which would include around the keel & it's support structure. But you'll want to check, & also have the surveyor check to be sure. And it's common, though not universal, to have solid glass in areas such as where the through hulls, & keel bolts, etc. are.

2) Should I be Leary of a vessel if this vintage with a balsa core? I've read that they use different methods today than they did then, and that the new methods are better.
Some which were built well are in great shape, assuming they were well taken care of. Others not so much. Which you'll want to vet your surveyor, particularly in the area of their knowledge & experience level having to do with cored construction.

3) Should I worry about a bolt-on keel on a balsa cored, 1987 boat, or am I being paranoid?
In this case it's called prudence, & wisdom Much as it would be were you buying an older classic car of similar vintage.

I've researched what I could online, but the consensus seems to be split right down the middle. Thanks!

Do some studying on marine surveys, as well as on thermal imaging. Both here on the forums, & online. Since such are what you use to ensure that a boat is solid, structurally, & that the important maintenance has been done. Boatpoker is a member here on CF who's a surveyor, & his website's worth a look. Along with many books on surveying older boats, & online articles. Don Casey's written one on evaluating older boats which is held in pretty high regard, & it's aimed at folks with almost all levels of boat knowledge & experience, including those with very little.
https://www.amazon.com/Inspecting-Sa...ords=don+casey

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_s...=2LKL3ZZBZHYMC

[KingBuffalo]

Will the surveyor be able to detect any moisture infiltration in the hull? I guess my biggest concern is that there might be damage in the hull core that won't be found until the hull is cooked. I'm probably paranoid but this will be my first big boat and I'm not wealthy.

[KingBuffalo]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I assume the hulls are solid where the factory thru hulls are?
If so any thru hulls that are not factory should bear closer inspection?

I don't know and I haven't been able to find any info about the specifics of construction methods. That's why I'm asking here.

[UNCIVILIZED]

A good surveyor will be able to determine most of these things while surveying the boat. Do some reading as I suggested, & you'll see this. You might also look online & see if there's an owner's group for these boats. Since if there is, the odds are that they'll know quite a bit about them, & be able to fill you in on many details of the boat. Though if you do some searching on here, there are a few S2 owners who also may be able to help. But in the big picture self education on boats & surveys is the best choice, since as a boat owner you'll be working on all kinds of aspects of the boat & her systems.
In additon to Don Casey, start reading Nigel Calder as well. Especially his Boat Owner's Mechanical & Electrical manual.

EDIT:
Here's one S2 owner, & thread. There are others as well. http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ity-89076.html
Another --> http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ea-186868.html

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Buffalo.

[NevisDog]

Originally Posted by KingBuffalo

No discount. Seller is asking 46k for a well cared for S2 35c in very good condition. I'm looking with the eyes of a know-nothing noob though...

No discount??? 1987, "excellent layout"... you make it sound as though you really like this boat, which is great - no point making an offer otherwise. But my understanding of boat-buying is you make an offer (subject to survey, sea trials, clear title, etc, etc). Owner (or broker) laughs at your ridiculous offer, then two weeks later, or maybe two months later, the seller accepts your offer. Or else you negotiate a price, still subject to survey, etc.

The above is a terrible generalisation (some owners actually ask a reasonable price, instead of the blatant oversell that most brokers seem to ask) but too many newbies rush in thinking the boat of their dreams will be gone if they hesitate, and sometimes that's what happens, so you go looking again and find there are many boats for sale and most take about a year or more to find a buyer.

A good surveyor will help with estimating a reasonable price once the survey is done, perhaps make contact with one now - until then it's up to you to determine what is a reasonable offer.

There has been one or two threads here where someone thought they were buying a boat from a friend, only to find they bought a 'pup'. Maybe ask a knowledgable friend to look at the boat with you.

[KingBuffalo]

Originally Posted by NevisDog

No discount??? 1987, "excellent layout"... you make it sound as though you really like this boat, which is great - no point making an offer otherwise. But my understanding of boat-buying is you make an offer (subject to survey, sea trials, clear title, etc, etc). Owner (or broker) laughs at your ridiculous offer, then two weeks later, or maybe two months later, the seller accepts your offer. Or else you negotiate a price, still subject to survey, etc.



The above is a terrible generalisation (some owners actually ask a reasonable price, instead of the blatant oversell that most brokers seem to ask) but too many newbies rush in thinking the boat of their dreams will be gone if they hesitate, and sometimes that's what happens, so you go looking again and find there are many boats for sale and most take about a year or more to find a buyer.



A good surveyor will help with estimating a reasonable price once the survey is done, perhaps make contact with one now - until then it's up to you to determine what is a reasonable offer.



There has been one or two threads here where someone thought they were buying a boat from a friend, only to find they bought a 'pup'. Maybe ask a knowledgable friend to look at the boat with you.

What I mean by "no discount" is that the asking price is similar to other boats of this size and vintage. I will use the surveyor's expertise as far as what I will offer.