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Old 24-02-2016, 14:28   #16
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Re: Old and maintained vs Older and retrofitted..

Get the one in the best shape NOW!

The age difference is meaningless.
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Old 24-02-2016, 14:28   #17
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Re: Old and maintained vs Older and retrofitted..

Is it a secret what kind of boats they are?
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Old 24-02-2016, 14:49   #18
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Re: Old and maintained vs Older and retrofitted..

Whew, some conundrum ya got! MAGGIE did a great analysis. I had an almost identical hurdle in 1997. Knew what boat we wanted, looked for a year, saw some sad examples of abuse & neglect, then found one. Missed survey 'cuz the owner, who kept a nice boat, lied about the fridge working on DC and a few other rigging things. The following week, after seven days of disappointment of getting so very close after a whole blinkin' year (!), we found another, in better shape, actually a few years older, with great stuff, pristine. Before we surveyed this one we actually compared one to new and couldn't justify twice the cost!!! We still have this "older boat" 18 years later!

Consider replacement parts (not full engine replacement) for your two engine choices. This is a BIG issue. Not so much the engines themselves, but where do you get and how pricey are all the bits & pieces one needs to keep a diesel running. Even stuff as simple as filters, and raw water, freshwater coolant pumps, heat exchangers, etc. all add up over time. I get mine from a tractor store, no marine prices. No so much the hours, but the condition. I know folks where you could eat off the engine! I'm inviting them over to do mine!

No you know what boat I have. Yours???

New cushions can get pricey, too.

Good luck.
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Old 24-02-2016, 16:33   #19
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Re: Old and maintained vs Older and retrofitted..

Re the engines:

The age in years isn't the deciding factor. The number of hours the type of usage and the attention to routine maintenance are the critical factors. 20 years age is trivial if the above factors have been considered.

I'm not a particular fan of Yanmars, but at least there ostensibly are parts available world wide. With your plans to go foreign, it might be educational to investigate the availability of Sole parts. They are not well represented in the Pacific, AFAIK.

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Old 24-02-2016, 22:52   #20
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Re: Old and maintained vs Older and retrofitted..

Ended up replacing / removing almost all of the old wiring and probably will end up replacing the rest at some point in the near future. Repowered, replumbed, and still have to address the refrigeration, crossing fingers on it's condition. All the electronics except the old furuno radar. The new chart plotter/sonar/radar would not communicate with the old transducers, had to replace. Building back as bullet proof as possible and will continue to do so, but the cost is astronomical even with doing most of the work myself.
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Old 25-02-2016, 08:43   #21
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Re: Old and maintained vs Older and retrofitted..

Google the boat manufacturer, the year, followed by the word "review". With many boats the owners will be quite open about their experiences. With others, there will be scant information.
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Old 25-02-2016, 09:36   #22
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Re: Old and maintained vs Older and retrofitted..

Maybe too petty to worry about: The Solé is, I believe, based on the Mitsubishi block, just like the Vetus I have. Good little engine, really, but much of the stuff you need to access for routine maintenance is mounted where it is hidden from sight and largely inaccessible in boats too small to afford comfortable side and rear access to the engine. Ceteris paribus, I would give points to a boat with a Beta rather than a Solé, though I'll admit I know nothing about the Deutz based Solés. For all I know, they might be as handy as the Beta which is based on the Kubota block.

Kubota industrial engines are everywhere and I would think that, unlike the Mitsu, parts are easily sourced regardless of where in the world you are located. In my neckathewoods Vetus/Mitsu have a stranglehold on those of us who like to do our own work. Parts are unconscionably expensive and take ages to reach us. "Cross-over" parts listings are held VERY close to the vest.

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Old 25-02-2016, 10:31   #23
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Re: Old and maintained vs Older and retrofitted..

Rebuilt and refitted a 1966 Piver trimaran in the late 80s. It was the dirtiest, nasty job I ever did. As a mater of fact, it took me almost three years to finish. I was so spent by the effort, I totally lost interest in her and sold her for half of what I purchased it for (invested almost double what I purchased in rebuilding). My thought to you is go with a survey that shows the better of the two. When you talk boats other than new (okay less than 10 years old), they are either solid, well maintained or retrofitted and of the same ilk. A good survey (make sure of trustworthiness) should tell you what you need to know. Of course, there is always the what ifs that are not thrown in and the maintenance post purchase that goes with the territory (it will only ever be as much as you want it to be). I'd go with a boat that has been updated over one that is well maintained. Even a brand new engine will deteriorate over twenty plus years w/o ever being run and that isn't quantified by proximity to salt water, UV rays and plane old dust and dirt. Consider that diesel engines have a reputation for longevity and the bane of their existence is water and gunk in the fuel (some living and some not). I would more consider your skills and willingness to work than what someone else has or hasn't done unless you have a limitless fund for that and if so, just buy a new one.
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Old 25-02-2016, 10:41   #24
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Re: Old and maintained vs Older and retrofitted..

Look at more than engine, hull, sails. I agree with a64pilot, look at all plumbing lines, head, faucets, behind electric panel, batteries, cushions alone could be 2k, ports, hatches, standing rigging(if more than 10 yrs old 3.5k), cosmetic condition. If all of this is better on the newer boat with original engine it would be cheaper to install a new engine than replace all mentioned above....good luck
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Old 25-02-2016, 10:51   #25
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Re: Old and maintained vs Older and retrofitted..

Quote:
Originally Posted by crankysailor View Post
So my conundrum is.. the 1976 model, which is of a more modern design than the 73.. is quite a looker. But still has the old engine on it. The 1973 older ship shows the aged design but with a new engine and transmission and lots of hull work.. however ist not that attractive as the 76...
Hard to say much without at least a few pics of said boats ... I have seen some very well done refits, and some that made me cringe ...
An old engine doesn't have to be a bad thing, a new engine isn't necessarily a good thing.

You seem to like the '76 model a lot more, so without more to go on: go for the one you like more.
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Old 25-02-2016, 11:04   #26
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Re: Old and maintained vs Older and retrofitted..

Don’t make the decision based on the engine. Focus first on the structural components, mast, rigging, sails and underbody. Then sailing abilities and live aboard comfort.
The main concern about the age difference is that in the early/mid 70’s the builders messed up with their resins due to their high cost, so check for underwater issues particularly blisters.
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Old 25-02-2016, 11:09   #27
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Re: Old and maintained vs Older and retrofitted..

The only engine that would turn me away is that damned Volvo MD11c. If the trans is shot, it'll cost you $5K or more to rebuild it (if you can find the parts) . The Swedes, in their infinite wisdom, decided to stop supporting it 15 years ago. Another thing, make sure the engine can be easily removed and replaced without demolishing the boat.
:rant OFF:
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Old 25-02-2016, 13:44   #28
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Re: Old and maintained vs Older and retrofitted..

Quote:
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...Your opinion is most welcome!...
In that case--

The more specific you are, the better the advice you'll receive. Rather than pages of what-if's to cover all non-possibilities.

Generally speaking, if neither of these two boats stands out in a way to make you go "Oh my! THAT is my boat!" Then you have not shopped long or hard enough to rationalize spending $35k (to start) on a boat that likely needs an expensive refit.

As for your 2 vague examples/descriptions, I will vaguely say: Find one that has spent its entire life in the care of knowledgeable and competent owners who lavished it with their love and kindness. Not some (possibly) near derelict boat a DIY-er picked up cheap for his first mail-order/internet course in amateur boat building. An engine survey and log can tell a lot about the condition of the engine.

Buy quality.
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Old 25-02-2016, 13:59   #29
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Re: Old and maintained vs Older and retrofitted..

Its too bad you won't tell us the make/model of the boat. We are all friends here (mostly), and you would get better info.

I bought a 1974 Pearson 30. It had an updated engine, new standing rigging, new electronics, new sails. I guess it would be comparable to your "older" boat. For the most part, I was very very happy with the boat, although it definitely had a dated appearance, especially below.

My main concern was the new engine, although it ran great, was not installed well. The engine mounts were fudged up, and the alignment was never good. This made for a lot of noisy vibration when running. Also, the replacement was larger than the original, so big chunks of wood had been crudely carved out of the engine compartment to make space...not pretty.

I definitely appreciated the new sails and updated rigging. Standing rigging has a lifespan of 25 years max. When the wind blows, and it will, new rigging will give you confidence. Also, hopefully they would not attach new standing rigging to damaged chainplates.

I vote for the older boat with the refit.
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Old 25-02-2016, 14:03   #30
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Re: Old and maintained vs Older and retrofitted..

Let the boat choose you: Offer $25k on BOTH...with full disclosure in your offers...first to accept gets the deal. If no one bites, keep looking.

On my last boat I used this method on the 3 boats I liked. My offer was about 50% of asking. I didn't "love" the boat I got...but it was a good boat and I had many great adventures. Sold it recently for more than I paid.
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