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Old 27-01-2013, 17:45   #1
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Off Shore Boat Price Consideration

Quick Question:
If I assume that NADA book price for an older sailboat is X and if I find a boat offshore for X +Y. Then assuming that I like the boat and it is well fitted...what is a fair price to offer the seller for the boat? Subtract value of my time/ticket/plus? (E), or do I eat the adders? (Y-E)? (X - E)? (X+Y-E)?

Some pointers would be helpful. Also, some thoughts on haulout and survey would help. This is a less than 40K$ boat but I will need to have it insured and since the boat is off Panama there doesn't seem to be a surveyor handy.

If this has been hashed out a number of times then a link to the discussions would be appreciated. My first big sailboat so....

Thank You
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Old 27-01-2013, 17:53   #2
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Re: Off Shore boat price consideration

Why should the seller accept less just to subsidize your travel cost? Or your time? It's not the sellers fault that you don't live on his doorstep. If you're going to buy a boat it's up to you to get to where the boats are on your own dime.

Now if you're buying a brand new boat from an offshore manufacturer they might throw a trip in, after you've signed.
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Old 28-01-2013, 03:42   #3
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Re: Off Shore boat price consideration

I agree with Vasco - but nonetheless location of the boat does affect it's value as some places are out of the way and therefore a small potential pool of buyers for excactly the problem that OP faces (one thing paying out money to see a boat you buy - another if your search includes a few trips to various boats that all turned out to be less that accurately described - it happens!).

If the boat was in Florida then I would say you get to suck up the travel costs as plenty of other potential buyers around who don't have those extra buying costs - but if Panama is a crap place to sell a boat (far less potential buyers on the doorstep?) then Vendor likely to have to reflect that in a lower price and likely also in accepting a longer sale period (and if can't accept that will also need a further price drop to tempt folks)......and of course lots of variations of locations in between.

Every boat (as everything else) does have a different value to each person. For "you" that 1982 Beneteau based in Panama may be worth $50k, for me it could be worth $70k (I have always wanted to float around the Caribbean for several years and saves me having to equip the vessel for a transat, plus saves me the time to get the boat where I want it...or it could be worth $30k (or less) to me as Panama an out of the way backwater - I want to be in the Med!.....all 3 values are right. and that before we even get onto what the boat is worth to the Vendor and in the market / to others!

On a general note, I would hesitate to buy first boat at a distance unless intending to relocate their and willing to spend time getting her fully shipshape (their is always "stuff to do - and getting stuff done at a distance costs and is a PITA to manage, and sometimes even to get the expected outcome!).
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Old 28-01-2013, 04:34   #4
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Re: Off Shore boat price consideration

Like everything else it is supply and demand. I have heard that similar boats go for less in Florida because there is a bigger market than down here in Grenada. I believe a boat is a personal investment. I have always looked at the market to see what is reasonable and what is not. Then from there found the boat that I like and purchased it at whatever price I placed on the boat. I find that talking to the prior owner said a lot about the condition of the boat. The better they seem to love it, yes it might be a higher price, but I have found less surprises the first day I splash.
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Old 28-01-2013, 05:14   #5
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Re: Off Shore boat price consideration

I don't put much stock in NADA's prices; nevertheless, I think the formula would look more like this:

X + Y + E (not - ) - ND where ND is any discount you can negotiate.

As Vasco points out any seller is highly unlikely to pay for your travel expenses. As for survey and haul-out those will also be on your nickel, but the seller may split a haul-out fee with you. It's all negotiable.

Considering its a $40K boat, I'd be looking more locally for something. What you're considering entails a lot of out-of-pocket expenses and risk for a small investment. Of course, if you're in a situation like DOJ describes then buying in Panama might make sense.
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Old 28-01-2013, 05:55   #6
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pirate Re: Off Shore boat price consideration

Just about every boat I've bought the last 10+ years has been 'Oversea's'... there's not much to be had in Portugal and what little there is has a 'Sunshine Premium' that owners seem to whack on coz their boat is in the sun.. ahahahahaaa.
BOLLOCKS... just coz they sailed somewhere and either cant or dont want to sail it home they think they have boosted the value for some obscure reason known only to them.. seen it in the Med/Carib and places like Panama..
If your gonna fly n buy... pick somewhere like the Carib or E coast US... locate a grouping then chose a central hub... my 2 Bene's I bought by flying into Antigua and using the cheap inter island flights to do my viewing...
1I bought in St Martin, the other in Tortola... the Hunter I bought after checking NY then flew down to NC where I checked out New Bern then found the boat in Oriental.
Internet makes the hunt so much easier... another thing to take into account in somewhere like Panama.. its a pig to get out of... and to get stuff to... it'd have to be something special to get me to splash out the flight down to look at just 1 boat.
Whatever you decide... Good Luck..

PS; Most US boatbuyers I met down there were trailing cute little Columbian ladies behind them..
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Old 28-01-2013, 07:02   #7
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Re: Off Shore boat price consideration

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Originally Posted by Doodles View Post
I don't put much stock in NADA's prices...
I don't put ANY stock in NADA's prices! Especially with older boats, they are pretty much worthless, for two reasons.

1. There are not enough boats of any particular model bought and sold each year to accurately determine an "average" price. It is just nothing like with cars.

2. Most especially with older boats, condition is everything. You could have two different O'Day 34's from 1981 (as an example), that were built one right after the other, one that's been kept up to date and well cared for, and one that's been neglected. The value difference between them could be tens of thousands of dollars. Knowing the "average" between them is useless information. And this is a very common boat; for less common models knowing the "average" is even less useful.

So, the only way to know what a boat is worth is to go and look at it, and compare it to other, similar boats. If you can get enough good, detailed, current pictures of the boat you can guess at the condition from those. But be aware that many advertisements show pictures of the boat from 15 years ago, when it was in good condition, not pictures of its current, dilapidated condition.

And, just to agree with everyone else, the seller doesn't care if you have to travel to see the boat. The local market where the boat is will determine its value, not how far you have to travel to see it.
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Old 28-01-2013, 12:22   #8
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I have been in the market for a year now trying to find a suitable boat for me,the advice iv recieved is offer half to a third of asking price,iv done both and have gotten no ware.
I am stumped as to putting a value on a boat. I can only put it this way,their are boats that are for sale and boats that are just on display. I have not yet met a seller that has the same idea of value than I have.
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Old 28-01-2013, 13:12   #9
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Re: Off Shore boat price consideration

Quote:
Originally Posted by tommyh View Post
I have been in the market for a year now trying to find a suitable boat for me,the advice iv recieved is offer half to a third of asking price,iv done both and have gotten no ware.
I am stumped as to putting a value on a boat. I can only put it this way,their are boats that are for sale and boats that are just on display. I have not yet met a seller that has the same idea of value than I have.

Don't know where you got the advice from but obviously it was not good advice. If you have been looking for a year and haven't bought yet, your idea of value is much different from the market. Perhaps we might understand your predicament better if you gave us an example, say your last offer and the boat that you made the offer on.

I don't know the age of boats you're looking at but just check the price of a new boat and you might get a better understanding of what boats cost. There is little wiggle room on new boat prices.
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Old 28-01-2013, 13:33   #10
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Ok ill answer that. The last boat I offered on was a 76 Fuji 32. Advertised cruise ready 30,000. The boat needed every thing and the owner could not answer to any of the systems age. I happen to have a very good understanding on the readyness of cruising boats. The fact of the matter is he bought the boat 4 years ago for much more and never did any thing to it. Now its in worse condition and he wants his money back. The value is just not there. Its worth no more than 15,000- 18,000 thats a fair price for what it is. My advice to everybody is if someone is willing to pony up cash in this economy take it and dont look back.
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Old 28-01-2013, 13:38   #11
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Re: Off Shore boat price consideration

What did you offer? If your offer is really low the seller will see you as a tire-kicker and not bother to respond.
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Old 28-01-2013, 13:50   #12
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I offered 15,000 hopeing a counter would be just under 20,000. By the way tire kickers doNT walk around with cash.
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Old 28-01-2013, 14:01   #13
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Re: Off Shore boat price consideration

You offered 15k-18k, maybe he needed 22k. My thoughts on the used market, for 10-20k you dont get much, but at 30k they start to be loaded with semi new stuff. The 30k-ish boats are listed at 45k. So get 30k bucks and start going to look at 40-45k boats. This system wont work for stuff under 15k, bare hulls with rig and old sails still worth 10k.
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Old 28-01-2013, 14:05   #14
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Re: Off Shore boat price consideration

If you really want a boat you might have to rethink you bargaining strategy. Saying you've got cash doesn't help, all sellers expect cash. Few will finance your purchase.
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Old 28-01-2013, 14:09   #15
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You need to reread your statment. Your right a bare boat is not worth much. Thats why I offered what I did. 15,000 was generous. They screwed up and should have countered and not got their feelings hurt. By the way the broker thought it was solid and a good starting point. Every body out there,if your in love with your boat,keep it and do not wast the real buyers time.
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