Oceanis 485 steering failure

[Highland Fling]

Originally Posted by neilpride

Ohhh sad, but this the double rudder config, forget what i say previously regarding the recall from Beneteau, those new Oceanis have a better rudder post construction,,,

Twin wheels yes two rudders I don't think socan someone who knows the Oceanis 48 intimately confirm rudder configuration?

[MarkJ]

[QUOTE=partyanimal;202974] One thing I would add is that we observed very poor radio discipline in the Leewards - it was sometimes difficult to have a conversation with the CG because of other non emergency traffic on the channel. If this was the UK they would have been told to get off Ch16
/QUOTE]

VHF emergency stuff works in an interesting way. The whole of the Caribbean is controlled by MRCC Fort De France, Martinique. So for them to send and receive to north of Guadeloupe they use local repeaters. So boats in other areas may not hear either side of the emergency communications and think the channel is free.

This is particularly so with ships with great but installations, and Superyachts with diamond encrusted microphones broadcasting more than 20nms across a flat sea.

As for the coast guard having a helicopter - you don't get that anywhere else in the Caribbean so don't rely on it! First time I have heard of one hereabouts.

Finally, if an emergency hoes on for a few hours as this sounds like it has, there's a lot of regular comma still needed - ships arriving in port, pilots, tugs etc. Its difficult to close down the whole area and have ship waiting for 4 hours to berth in another country. (Though most port authorities use 12 and 13 for commercial ships)

[Antilag]

Got this video on my Facebook feed: https://www.facebook.com/jmm.meunier...9199013432972/

Not sure if you can see it without an account

[neilpride]

Well is not a twin rudder config, and the rudder is still there in place when it goo to the bottom , I don't know but I don't think this boat get this amount of water by the rudder,,, you can see in the video the rudder in place and swingin port to starboard with the swell... what happen here????

[Hud3]

The OP says the event occurred in 500 meters of water.

If the charter company thinks snagging a lobster float line was involved, they're barking up the wrong tree. I never came across any pots in that depth. Up to 150 meters, maybe. 500, never.

[neilpride]

In Martinique they set the traps around 40 to 70 ft bottom depth, around Diamond rock, the same, max 100 ft.
And here in St Marteen I have a fisherman friend who set the traps between 50 and 80 ft...

The traps are underwater, I mean no buoys or BS plastic bottles floating, they mark the traps by GPS, they try to avoid that someone steal the traps, others fishermans, they leave a line floating with a buoy several feets from the surface ....and honestly a boat have enough momentum to lift the whole trap from the bottom and drag the trap with the rudder or prop, they are not heavy.....

[estarzinger]

The most common cause of this sort of slow sinking is the stuffing box giving up the ghost. Particularly likely here as they were (apparently) motor sailing.

Once you get about 15cm of water in the boat it is then quite hard to determine where it is coming from.

[neilpride]

They have saildrives as far I know/ ? ??

[estarzinger]

Originally Posted by neilpride

They have saildrives as far I know/ ? ??

Be interesting to confirm that? Can you?

But with a sail drive - leaking seal around leg - a bit less common than the stuffing box failure but still not unheard of.

I am not sure what the point of this thread is - is the charter company trying to get money from the charterer's o compensate for the lost boat? If so, the whole deal will be what the contract language says in case of damage when the cause cannot be determined. That will certainly be there case here. It is more likely it is a boat failure not caused by the charterer's but there is no way to prove it either way without recovering the boat, which is not going to happen.

[neilpride]

Originally Posted by estarzinger

Be interesting to confirm that? Can you?

But with a sail drive - leaking seal around leg - a bit less common than the stuffing box failure but still not unheard of.

I am not sure what the point of this thread is - is the charter company trying to get money from the charterer's o compensate for the lost boat? If so, the whole deal will be what the contract language says in case of damage when the cause cannot be determined. That will certainly be there case here. It is more likely it is a boat failure not caused by the charterer's but there is no way to prove it either way without recovering the boat, which is not going to happen.

Well the Beneteau website offer the 485 with a 75 hp pod with saildrive, now i dont know if they offert the boat with traditional prop shaft trans,,, since this boat is a 2012 i guess they sport a saildrive..

[Highland Fling]

Originally Posted by neilpride

Well the Beneteau website offer the 485 with a 75 hp pod with saildrive, now i dont know if they offert the boat with traditional prop shaft trans,,, since this boat is a 2012 i guess they sport a saildrive..

They all have sail drives with the option of the rotating dock and go version and yes only one rudder a big deep one.

Also looking at the chart but without a GPS location the water north of Martinique is 500/800 fathoms deep so that one looks like a keeper for Neptune.

Real mystery though as to what went wrong and how the water got into the boat.

[Highland Fling]

Originally Posted by estarzinger

Be interesting to confirm that? Can you?

But with a sail drive - leaking seal around leg - a bit less common than the stuffing box failure but still not unheard of.

I am not sure what the point of this thread is - is the charter company trying to get money from the charterer's o compensate for the lost boat? If so, the whole deal will be what the contract language says in case of damage when the cause cannot be determined. That will certainly be there case here. It is more likely it is a boat failure not caused by the charterer's but there is no way to prove it either way without recovering the boat, which is not going to happen.

YES well have you read about the Sunsail boat that went out on charter WITHOUT a KEEL and came backe safely too........seriously mind boggling

[ontherocks83]

Originally Posted by Highland Fling

Getting in the water to see if you can see what the problem is seems like the next choice if you cant determine where the water is coming in from for reasons of access.

That seems like a lot of risk to me, to save a boat when the crew was already rescued. Even in a mild sea it would be very easy for the hull to bounce down onto your head and cause some serious injuries.

Originally Posted by Antilag

Got this video on my Facebook feed: https://www.facebook.com/jmm.meunier...9199013432972/

Not sure if you can see it without an account

I don't know what it is about watching that and already knowing the outcome but it still is just eerie

[estarzinger]

Originally Posted by Highland Fling

Real mystery though as to what went wrong and how the water got into the boat.

Count the ways . . . .
1. broken hose or thru hull or transducers
2. leaking rudder shaft seal
3. leaking sail drive seal
4. broken rudder shaft (looks like not from the video)
5. leaking keel bolts/joint (have to be really serious, much less likely than the above to suddenly start happening from nothing)
6. cracked hull (no discussion of a collision so unlikely)

So its 99% 1, 2, or 3. These are roughly equal probability and would (most likely) have had to do with inadequate vessel maintenance. Do remember these boats have brass (not bronze and not DZ) thru-hulls and mixed metal valves and not proper seacocks.

Given these charter boats are run around with a relatively high frequency, and they are not super well built, and the maintenance is 'to a cost', it is amazing more don't disappear like this.

[Highland Fling]

Originally Posted by estarzinger

Count the ways . . . .
1. broken hose or thru hull or transducers
2. leaking rudder shaft seal
3. leaking sail drive seal
4. broken rudder shaft (looks like not from the video)
5. leaking keel bolts/joint (have to be really serious, much less likely than the above to suddenly start happening from nothing)
6. cracked hull (no discussion of a collision so unlikely)

So its 99% 1, 2, or 3. These are roughly equal probability and would (most likely) have had to do with inadequate vessel maintenance. Do remember these boats have brass (not bronze and not DZ) thru-hulls and mixed metal valves and not proper seacocks.

Given these charter boats are run around with a relatively high frequency, and they are not super well built, and the maintenance is 'to a cost', it is amazing more don't disappear like this.

None of that fits in with the reported autohelm failure pure and really unhelpful conjecture but hey this is an Internet forum nothing new there.

The dig at poor maintenace and brass not bronze fittings is doubly unhelpful you know this boat and its maintenace record do you? Then slagging off the worlds biggerst boat builder.........really the mind boggles


Having had a boat in charter and purchasing an ex charter boat I can say that the maintenace was never skimped being charged to the boat owner and we got and had a really well maintained boat when we took it out of charter.