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Old 06-02-2016, 09:43   #136
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Re: Oceanis 485 steering failure

I remember we carry a pump like this one in a large cutter some time ago, we never be in a situation to use it , probably the only downside could be the maintenance and the location to store aboard , but they could save the day in a bad scenario....
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Old 06-02-2016, 10:12   #137
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Re: Oceanis 485 steering failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarstenWL View Post
...a German sailor describes he had the same problem on his Oceanis 48...
You can see where the rudder tube has broken away from the hull, due to lack of support at the top of the rudder shaft.

This design/build is criminally negligent.
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Old 06-02-2016, 10:17   #138
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Re: Oceanis 485 steering failure

Watching that video, I'm constantly surprised by arm chair recommendations that the crew should have done more to save a boat in distress.

The skipper's primary job is to make sure no one get's hurt. Diving under a boat offshore is LUNACY if rescue is available.

I also would have gotten those Coast Guard guys off much earlier. The only lives at risk were their own. No one should risk injury for a bunch of fiberglass and plexus.

Congrats to the crew and CG for a safe outcome.
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Old 06-02-2016, 10:51   #139
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Re: Oceanis 485 steering failure

Down Vote on Beneteau. Stay away!
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Old 06-02-2016, 11:11   #140
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Re: Oceanis 485 steering failure

Sounds like it is getting to arm chair sailors?
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Old 06-02-2016, 11:42   #141
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Re: Oceanis 485 steering failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by neilpride View Post
No, no deck top bearing , and no, no auto alignment bearing anywhere, the top bearing is a white plastic piece glued to the ply with plexus , as I say 3 or 4 pages ago, Benetau admit the problem and call to the dealers for a Oceanis recall to install this steel bracket .. obviously this plate only solve one issue , the top bearing problem, but what about with the ply structure?
So this steel bracket kind of would substitute the top bearing:


That seems a bit flimsy but I believe that with the upper part of the rudder stock with a support all the force would be made there and on the bottom bearing, no more problems with the plywood box that, contrary to what happened before, would not be subjected to great efforts. If any problem arise I would say that it would be on the part that piece is going to be fixed that has to be one able to resist to large lateral efforts without problem.

You are right, no auto alignment bearing. Here you have a drawing with the design of the Oceanis 48 rudder. The odd thing that goes up it is just the emergency tiller. No connection from the rudder to the cockpit, no upper bearing.

Bavaria and other brands use the Jeffa system that is a simple and effective one with an auto alignment bearing on the bottom and a top bearing on the cockpit floor. I don't understand this design, it creates unnecessary efforts and would require a much stronger encasing and fixation.

Note that even if not an effective design it is all a question of proper dimension of the structural parts and the way they are fixed to the hull, that seems that on this case it is not strong enough.

That piece you showed, the first photo on this post, that Beneteau is giving to the dealers to beef up the rudder assembly, regards what models?
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Old 06-02-2016, 11:50   #142
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pirate Re: Oceanis 485 steering failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polux View Post
So this steel bracket that would substitute the top bearing:


That seems a bit flimsy but I believe that without the upper part of the rudder stock with a support you would all the force made there and on the bottom bearing, no more problems with the plywood box that, contrary to what happened before, would not be subjected to great efforts. If any problem arise I would say that it would be on the part that piece is going to be fixed that has to be one able to resist to large lateral efforts without problem.

You are right, no auto alignment bearing. Here you have a drawing with the design of the Oceanis 48 rudder. The odd thing that goes up it is just the emergency rudder. No connection from the rudder to the cockpit, no upper bearing.

Bavaria and other brands use the Jeffa system that is a simple and effective one with an auto alignment bearing on the bottom and a top bearing on the cockpit floor. I don't understand this design, it creates unnecessary efforts and would require a much stronger encasing and fixation.
Its a Race Style boat Without the Race Style Support..
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Old 06-02-2016, 11:50   #143
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Re: Oceanis 485 steering failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polux View Post
... The odd thing that goes up it is just the emergency rudder...
Tiller.
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Old 06-02-2016, 12:01   #144
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Re: Oceanis 485 steering failure

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Originally Posted by Terra Nova View Post
Tiller.
Yes, thanks, I have corrected the word on the post.
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Old 06-02-2016, 12:55   #145
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Re: Oceanis 485 steering failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polux View Post
So this steel bracket kind of would substitute the top bearing:


That seems a bit flimsy but I believe that with the upper part of the rudder stock with a support all the force would be made there and on the bottom bearing, no more problems with the plywood box that, contrary to what happened before, would not be subjected to great efforts. If any problem arise I would say that it would be on the part that piece is going to be fixed that has to be one able to resist to large lateral efforts without problem.

You are right, no auto alignment bearing. Here you have a drawing with the design of the Oceanis 48 rudder. The odd thing that goes up it is just the emergency tiller. No connection from the rudder to the cockpit, no upper bearing.

Bavaria and other brands use the Jeffa system that is a simple and effective one with an auto alignment bearing on the bottom and a top bearing on the cockpit floor. I don't understand this design, it creates unnecessary efforts and would require a much stronger encasing and fixation.

Note that even if not an effective design it is all a question of proper dimension of the structural parts and the way they are fixed to the hull, that seems that on this case it is not strong enough.

That piece you showed, the first photo on this post, that Beneteau is giving to the dealers to beef up the rudder assembly, regards what models?
Almost all the single rudder Oceanis series with the ikea furniture as the rudder support..
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Old 07-02-2016, 04:39   #146
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Re: Oceanis 485 steering failure

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Originally Posted by neilpride View Post
Almost all the single rudder Oceanis series with the ikea furniture as the rudder support..
You are sure about that? It seems a statement that you should made only if you are sure of it.

What are the ones that Beneteau don't think they need any repair, meaning that they did not instruct dealers to make that modification?

It has to do with a particular boat designer or with the designs of several NAs? There are several that have designed single rudder Oceanis, some are still in production.
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Old 07-02-2016, 05:16   #147
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Re: Oceanis 485 steering failure

After exhausting research it seems Beneteau is offering a different retrofit kit than the one that Neil has shown us...

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Old 07-02-2016, 06:00   #148
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Re: Oceanis 485 steering failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyMdRSailor;nh2038509
After exhausting research it seems Beneteau is offering a different retrofit kit than the one that Neil has shown us...

Oh man that is funny!

I know hind sight is 20/20 but by attaching all the steering inputs above the upper bearing they turned the rudder post into a class 1 lever, which is good and all except for levers are designed to move things, even if it didnt want to be moved. Making the rudder post longer and attaching it to the deck "could" have prevented all of this.
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Old 07-02-2016, 07:09   #149
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Re: Oceanis 485 steering failure

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Originally Posted by ontherocks83 View Post
Oh man that is funny!

I know hind sight is 20/20 but by attaching all the steering inputs above the upper bearing they turned the rudder post into a class 1 lever, which is good and all except for levers are designed to move things, even if it didnt want to be moved. Making the rudder post longer and attaching it to the deck "could" have prevented all of this.
I'm sayin'!

It would be awesome if... EVERY kid in school would be well versed in moment diagrams and the uber simple calculation....
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Old 07-02-2016, 07:17   #150
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Re: Oceanis 485 steering failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polux View Post
You are sure about that? It seems a statement that you should made only if you are sure of it.

What are the ones that Beneteau don't think they need any repair, meaning that they did not instruct dealers to make that modification?

It has to do with a particular boat designer or with the designs of several NAs? There are several that have designed single rudder Oceanis, some are still in production.

Research again, i mean if the boat sport the same structure, FG tube , top resting in the ply partitions with plexus, then is a candidate for modifications , repair.

I do some work in few Oceanis, from a 50 to a 40 ft, single rudder , they have the same config, unless Beneteau is doing diferent with the double rudder designs, the problem is still there....

Now ask yourself how many cruisers out there are aware of this problem..
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