Ocean Crossing - How Small Is Too Small ?

[NJtheteacher]

Originally Posted by Catcruiser

Minitransats 6.50's are just under 22 ft. They can do it. And fast!!
Or look at this little cutie the Minibee at www.beeboat.com
based on the minitransats, but also with ocean crossing capabilities! And at 30.000 euros!!

But, I wouldn't for the life of me. Just horrified to think about the discomfort!

This is indeed a small boat, much smaller than I had intended. However, it looks like a nice first boat. The website you offered only had CGI pictures. Going to the Barramundi website, I got to see real pictures. I had to translate the French, but I sent them a message to inquire. Thanks for the thought.

John

[NJtheteacher]

Originally Posted by SurferShane

a lot more comfortable than my solo mountaineering tent.

This thread has been quite a good read. I really dig the varied viewpoints. This particular posting from SurferShane reminded me of an instance of perspective alignment.

Once, when I was an enlisted sailor, after many days at sea, with no sight of land, my shipmates and I did our usual grumblings about our living spaces, how thin our mattresses were, etc.

Then, we had some Army guys hitch a ride with us. One day, as I was walking through the hangar bay, I saw tents set up. Huh? I had to ask what this was about. One of the guys told me it was way better than the places they typically sleep. It really caused me to pause and do some serious introspection.

Later, when I got slept in a stateroom and ate in the Officer's mess, I not only felt like a king, but I really appreciated what the enlisted guy's experienced, even if they didn't appreciate their position.

As I heard many moons ago, "perception is 9/10ths of the law." It really depends on where you have been and how much you appreciate where you are.

Just as several of you have said. Whether you are comfortable on a 26' or a 45' is completely your choice. I, personally, would prefer 35' or less. However, I would not choose to have the experience of a 15' circumnavigation. I have humble tastes, but not that humble, I guess.

John

[sck5]

When I was in my 20's and was a skinnier me with a skinnier girlfriend I would have been happy in a skinnier boat than I have now. A 33 has worked fine for ocean passages but i wouldnt want anything much smaller because my wife would desert me and I couldnt bring the various toys I like to have along - electronics, books, dinghy and motor, lots and lots of water, etc. etc.

[rgscpat]

One decision point would have to be how the captain and crew feel about watchkeeping. Do you feel safe if there isn't someone on the helm or on watch on deck? And how many hours a day can you stand to be there? That will depend both upon crew health and experience, individual risk tolerance, environmental conditions, and how comfortable and easy to steer the boat is.

[sck5]

rgscpat has a very good point. On my 33 we usually have 3 watchstanders for long passages. That means an average of 8 hours a day on watch which is pretty tiring in rough weather. Four would be better but then we would be at the limit of how much food and water we can haul around.

[Banjo]

Good evening,

My favourite saying is "the best boat to go with is the boat you've got".

Many years ago, a couple at my Club had kitted out an ancient 9 meter double ender gaff ketch and were planning a circumnavigation. The bathtub admirals on the Club veranda were discussing the "too much this, the too little that, that is wrong, that won't work" about the little gaff ketch. While they were still opinionating, the little gaff ketch went for a sail, heading West.
About two years later the merrits and faults of the little gaff ketch were still being discussed. And then out of the East apeared a little gaff ketch which according to the admirals would be totally unsuitable for a cicumnavigation.

My friends had circumnavigated and were done with it before their critics had even reached concensus on what was wrong with their little gaff ketch.

Go with whatever makes you happy, but just go!

Happy sailing,
Banjo.

[tropicalescape]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Read a book by a guy in the 1950's who converted a 14ft wooden dinghy in N America and then sailed it from New York I think, to Cornwall, UK..... now that is S&M.... but he did it and I wish I could remember the name of the book. A real tale of someone with a dream and the grit and dertermination to follow it through.... he was'nt some starry eyed kid either... married with 3 kids if memory serves me....

I belive you are refering to The Tinkerbell,it was an old town canoe white cap sailboat built by the oldest canoe maker in the world out of old town Maine and are still in business ...belive they celebrated there 100th anniversery in 2000 and I had an all original one built in 1961 that I sold to an artist named Bob Timberlake who also markets hand made indian canoes that are to die for..anway this book is a very good book and describes every aspect of his adventure sailing across the atlantic in the smallest sailboat setting a solo record at the time for crossing in a 12.5 ft. sailboat...great story ,says he started seeing things that werent there ,was taking speed to stay awake,meeting ships and being giving food and advice along the way by ships captains and was meet by a heros welcome upon arrival.One of my all time favorite sailing books along with Two years before the mast by Richard Henry Dana and the Fatal Impact by Capt.Cook of the Bounty fame. DVC

[tropicalescape]

Originally Posted by NJtheteacher

This thread has been quite a good read. I really dig the varied viewpoints. This particular posting from SurferShane reminded me of an instance of perspective alignment.

Once, when I was an enlisted sailor, after many days at sea, with no sight of land, my shipmates and I did our usual grumblings about our living spaces, how thin our mattresses were, etc.

Then, we had some Army guys hitch a ride with us. One day, as I was walking through the hangar bay, I saw tents set up. Huh? I had to ask what this was about. One of the guys told me it was way better than the places they typically sleep. It really caused me to pause and do some serious introspection.

Later, when I got slept in a stateroom and ate in the Officer's mess, I not only felt like a king, but I really appreciated what the enlisted guy's experienced, even if they didn't appreciate their position.

As I heard many moons ago, "perception is 9/10ths of the law." It really depends on where you have been and how much you appreciate where you are.

Just as several of you have said. Whether you are comfortable on a 26' or a 45' is completely your choice. I, personally, would prefer 35' or less. However, I would not choose to have the experience of a 15' circumnavigation. I have humble tastes, but not that humble, I guess.

John

I thought it was possession is 9/10ths of the law and that perception is reality to 9/10ths of the people. not meaning to be a smart ass..and thanks for your service..DVC

[NJtheteacher]

Originally Posted by tropicalescape

I thought it was possession is 9/10ths of the law and that perception is reality to 9/10ths of the people. not meaning to be a smart ass..and thanks for your service..DVC

Yes, sir. It is really a joke, a play on words of the actual "possession is 9/10ths..." I heard it a while back and have been using it ever since. It really has proven to be true. Regardless of your opinion or intention about something, perception indeed wins.

[Piney]

I would not hesitate to take a Flicka 20 on an ocean passage, but that is about as small as I would go.

To see some of the smallest world records go here:
Famous Small Boats

[Piney]

How about a 19 foot open boat? Talk about crazy...

First open boat circumnavigation. Very interesting story.
Anthony Steward - Around alone in an open boat

[ms100]

I would like to add:
Webb Chiles, The open boat: across the Pacific, 1982 (you can get it online from the author's site)
Hannes Lindemann, Alone at sea, 1958; he made a cross with a canoe.

[tropicalescape]

Originally Posted by tropicalescape

I thought it was possession is 9/10ths of the law and that perception is reality to 9/10ths of the people. not meaning to be a smart ass..and thanks for your service..DVC

At least that is what my former girlfriends boyfriend said after they stole my 1971 Ford Bronco!!

[topfish]

Originally Posted by maxingout

I would consider doing it in a Norsea 27.

That's the smallest I would consider for reasons of comfort. The smaller you go, the rougher the ride and the more spartan the experience. Lots of trips have been done with smaller vessels in safety, but not with much comfort.

Serge Testa did his circumnavigation in 500 days in Acrohc Australis which is 11 feet 10 inches long. It was a deep keel spartan yacht that he constructed by himself in Australia. You can see it on display in a museum in Brisbane.

You can also read his book, "500 Days - Around the World on a 12 Foot Yacht". Serge Testa. Trident Press.

something I have considered if at all important! is the actual numbers of some small BW cruisers..

Dana 24 : LWL = 21'5" Displ = 8000lbs Ballast = 3100 (lead enscapulated)
Norsea 27 : LWL = 25'0" Displ = 8100lbs Ballast = 3100
Flicka 20 : LWL = 18'2" Displ = 5500LBS Ballast = 1750
Capsize factor and Motion Comfort Ratio are ALL about equal!

* other boats may be worththy looking into would be the PSC Orion 27 and perhaps the Shannon 28.

[David_Old_Jersey]

For most, the size of a boat that can - is wayyyyy smaller than the size of a boat folk want to.

And nothing wrong with that - it's meant to be enjoyable......and everyone requires different things for that.

In my 20's would have been happy to go pretty much anywhere on a decent 26/27 footer. But I now have a "Big" boat - 30' (which is a "keeper" ) - it's nice to have full standing headroom in the saloon, with age comes a desire to avoid losing brain cells unneccesarily