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Old 17-08-2016, 16:36   #31
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Re: "Normal" requirements - why so hard to find

Have you considered a Nonsuch 36?

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Originally Posted by marty9876 View Post
Are my requirements that abnormal/unrealistic? Am I misunderstanding the benefits of what is primarily on the market? I'm looking for my first large (32'-38') sailboat and am getting discouraged. Seems my selection criteria doesn't really line up with what is in the market.

Use case: Lake Superior/North Channel weekends to two week plus long cruises

My pseudo requirement subject to change on how pretty she is are:

- Head next to the companionway. I don't understand heads forward next to the v-berth, ruins the layout and messy getting rain gear off and alike.

- U or J galley. I don't understand the straight galleys on the side of the boat. I have not spent time on a boat with a straight galley but it seems usability while underway would be most challenging.

- Dedicated nav station, ideally forward facing. This seems to be almost the most limiting, perhaps that's due to my size/budget. Intent is for a space out of the way for notebook/reading/iPad/office type work, a place of ones own so to speak.

- Keel, fin/bulb. Wing are the predicament in this market, I'm concerned about pointing ability/performance. 6'0 or less draft would be ideal, maybe push it to 6'6. I think in Superior I would be fine, issues would be in the North Channel getting away from a wing keel.

- Main, traditional. I'll likely regret this but for a light air location I'm worried about the performance hit of a furling main. Boy those must be convenient.... For the size of boat I'm looking at I think a traditional is not unmanageable. I have no first hand experience with furling mains.

- Modern, 1995 or newer (2000+ ideally). There are a lot of things I just don't like on older boats.

- Nothing stupid. Ok, little ambiguous but it seems at least with production boats in my budget there tends to be that one really stupid thing the designer did which really adds no value to me. Sinks in the berths, massive aft cabins at the expense of lazarette storage space, shower stalls which are really unusable for a 6'0 medium frame guy.

Size - 32'-38'

Brands - well cared for, clean, good condition solid boat matters more than the brand.

Budget - $120k or less (freshwater market boats), can stretch this up a ways but I don't know if I really should have to.

I can find lots of options of front heads, furling main, wing keel boats with a straight gallery and a massive aft cabin with no storage.

Thoughts? Welcome to boat buying where nothing is ever perfect and this is the trend of the market for the last 20 years?
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Old 17-08-2016, 16:44   #32
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Re: "Normal" requirements - why so hard to find

I like your first question, regarding whether your question is normal / out of line, etc..

I do think your criteria is too fine-tuned for your own good. I'm a fellow Great Lakes sailor (Lake Michigan), and I've been at it for a bunch of decades.

Over time, my criteria have changed as my sailing habits have changed. To think that you're really going to accurately predict how you'll use the boat, or what interior design features are going to serve you well seems a bit unrealistic. Particularly with this being your first large boat. No, you wouldn't think so, but let me tell ya. Yeah, you could be right, but that'd be a shocker to me.

The nav station getaway has already been mentioned, and I agree with the nav station detractors. If you really need to spread out a chart (which I still do), there's a perfectly good, and larger table in the saloon. For my purposes, the nav station is a dinosaur, whose space could be better used elsewhere (bigger head, more hanging storage). I can't see it as a getaway space. On our Catalina 28, the v-berth is my quiet getaway.

When you've narrowed your choices down to a length of boat, and age of boat, and rig, appearance, and how much exterior wood you can tolerate, etc., you'll find that the pickings in your reasonably immediate area are pretty slim.

With your current level of pickiness, it could be a bit of a unicorn hunt, especially if you want one that's been well maintained (my personal preference). You might actually fulfill your perceived goals, and find the unicorn, only to find that your goals were off. If you found for example, a really nice Catalina 36, in excellent condition, with low hours, grab it. Or the 34. Or nice Hunter, etc.. So many nice boats that you'll find perfectly comfy.
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Old 17-08-2016, 17:22   #33
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Re: "Normal" requirements - why so hard to find

There are two ways to tackle this and you decided to put up a list of musts first.

Now nothing matches your list and you ask what's wrong with the boats. Your problem. Or look elsewhere! (For boats as you described exist otherwise).

The other way would be to look at what is being sailed and available locally.

Think of the prince who wanted a pretty, intelligent and sexy boyfriend but all candidates were either pretty and intelligent but not sexy or else sexy and pretty but not intelligent, or else ...

;-)
b.
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Old 17-08-2016, 21:04   #34
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Re: "Normal" requirements - why so hard to find

For that kind of coin you could build it to your desires. Probably a bit too much delayed gratification. But I feel where you're coming from. As sadly, so many of the designs out there are "insert a negative & unhappy word here". But it's good that you know what you want, as so many don't. And the latter than come asking us to help them to find a boat. Groan!
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Old 18-08-2016, 01:17   #35
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Re: "Normal" requirements - why so hard to find

Maybe forget the nav station with gps chartplotters they are not needed,Aft toilets are the way to go forward facing if you can,I have been on plenty of boats with sideways facing toilets and they are dangerous while at sea.good luck with your search.
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Old 18-08-2016, 07:45   #36
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Re: "Normal" requirements - why so hard to find

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokeys Kitchen View Post
We just sold our 2007 Hanse 342 ...
I'll look again at the Hanse line, not much available in my market unsure if I want to truck in a salt water boat. It's been a few years since I've been on a Hanse, via a written description I should love them but when looking them over (not in person yet) they just seem about 15 degrees of what I am looking for.

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Originally Posted by iliohale View Post
Thanks, will give them a hard look.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumble View Post
Beneteau 381 meets all these as well just conver the forward head to a sail locker/tool and spare parts room.
Beneteau 361/381/373/393/37 all look interesting, I need to look at them more. 373 freeboard worries me, 393 head in bow not sure on. Nothign against Beneteau if I could do it with a less mass produced boat that would be my preference. I really do like the lines and looks of many Beneteau's thou.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skipper53 View Post
The Catalina 34 has the head just inside the companionway and we'll away from the v-berth. There is,one coming up for sale in East Jordan, MI. Think price will be 8n the mid 30k range......Come on down!
Catalina 34 MKII seems like it might be a great fit. Cheaper than most other options, great support and easy resale.

Thanks, looks like it checks a lot of boxes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomdidit View Post
Agree that the Catalina 32 and 34 tick off most of your needs with the exception of the nav station not being forward facing. I would be surprised if you will find a nav station that meets your stated criteria in most boats today.

The 32 may be a bit tight for you, but the 34 has one of the largest v-births of anything that Catalina has made. The big problem is finding one in the Great Lakes. Older models more prevalent than 2000 plus.
Yea, the 34's listed in my market are not thrilling me. I need to get on some. The 320 was always been an option, just not sure if it's big enough (tankage, berths etc.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulawayo View Post
Have you considered a Nonsuch 36?
Fairly set on two private berths, interesting boat!

Quote:
Originally Posted by siamese View Post
I like your first question, regarding whether your question is normal / out of line, etc..

I do think your criteria is too fine-tuned for your own good. I'm a fellow Great Lakes sailor (Lake Michigan), and I've been at it for a bunch of decades.

Over time, my criteria have changed as my sailing habits have changed. To think that you're really going to accurately predict how you'll use the boat, or what interior design features are going to serve you well seems a bit unrealistic. Particularly with this being your first large boat. No, you wouldn't think so, but let me tell ya. Yeah, you could be right, but that'd be a shocker to me.

The nav station getaway has already been mentioned, and I agree with the nav station detractors. If you really need to spread out a chart (which I still do), there's a perfectly good, and larger table in the saloon. For my purposes, the nav station is a dinosaur, whose space could be better used elsewhere (bigger head, more hanging storage). I can't see it as a getaway space. On our Catalina 28, the v-berth is my quiet getaway.

When you've narrowed your choices down to a length of boat, and age of boat, and rig, appearance, and how much exterior wood you can tolerate, etc., you'll find that the pickings in your reasonably immediate area are pretty slim.

With your current level of pickiness, it could be a bit of a unicorn hunt, especially if you want one that's been well maintained (my personal preference). You might actually fulfill your perceived goals, and find the unicorn, only to find that your goals were off. If you found for example, a really nice Catalina 36, in excellent condition, with low hours, grab it. Or the 34. Or nice Hunter, etc.. So many nice boats that you'll find perfectly comfy.
Good name for a boat - Unicorn Hunter

I think your post is the crux of my intent of my original post. I'm trying to balance getting this right the first time with knowing I won't get it right the first time. I'm got some experience to know hopefully what I at least don't like. Biggest take away is to really challenge myself if the nav station really is a benefit (or a negative!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
There are two ways to tackle this and you decided to put up a list of musts first.

Now nothing matches your list and you ask what's wrong with the boats. Your problem. Or look elsewhere! (For boats as you described exist otherwise).

The other way would be to look at what is being sailed and available locally.

Think of the prince who wanted a pretty, intelligent and sexy boyfriend but all candidates were either pretty and intelligent but not sexy or else sexy and pretty but not intelligent, or else ...

;-)
b.
I really hesitated putting up a post like this for the reasons you pointed out. Two approaches, take the time to try and get it "right" by however I define that today or just make the best decision which what available on the market. Both perfectly viable approaches.
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Old 18-08-2016, 14:01   #37
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Re: "Normal" requirements - why so hard to find

A Westerly Storm fits all your criteria except a wing keel.


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Old 18-08-2016, 18:06   #38
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Re: "Normal" requirements - why so hard to find

Many boats meet your requirements I think except aft head. Cant think of any in that size range with aft head by companion way. Not a bad idea, just uncommon. If you compromise on that req I think you will find many that meet your other reqs.
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Old 29-08-2016, 12:48   #39
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Re: "Normal" requirements - why so hard to find

The aft head/aft cabin config actually isn't the hard part, it's the dedicated forward facing nav station that will be a tough ask in something under 38'.

My current ride, a 36' 1990 C&C 34+ (AKA 34/36, AKA 36XL), checks all the boxes except the nav, which is aft facing and shares the aft end of the starboard settee. It's a reasonable situation; IMO a dedicated nav is a waste of space on a 36'er. This boat has a large aft head next to the companionway steps with a separate shower stall, and a huge private aft cabin to port abaft the l-shaped galley, which has a double bowl sink near the centerline. The aft cabin (or v-berth for that matter) is a great "getaway spot".

Also a very easy boat to singlehand; all lines led aft with boom-end sheeting to a traveller just ahead of the pedestal. Primaries are way aft next to the wheel. Fast and fun to sail, and I can vouch for the windward ability of my wing-keel version. I'm sure the 7'3" deep fin version would point a little better, but I'm more than satisfied with my wing.

There aren't alot of them on the market at any one time, but when they do show up they're alot less than the OP's budget.
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