Nicholson 31 or Westsail 32?

[Ramona]

Originally Posted by sgwright

So the N31 is gone, but a Nicholson 35 is also available. It's not a full keeler, but is a solid boat from the specs. https://campernicholson35sailboat.ca/. Price is almost as much as the W32, and while it's a nice enough boat, the dark blue hull/light blue topsides are not my thing. Aside from the two WS32 for sale locally, there is also a Mariah 31. The main drawback for me is that it has even more exterior teak than the WS32, including everything in the cockpit. Also, I can't get over how the cockpit looks like a wooden hot tub in the photos, which of course makes me wonder about what happens if it gets pooped...
Other interesting boats I saw yesterday (not for sale) were a Coast 34 and a Nimble 30. They were near a nice W32 so I was able to compare, and decided that overall I prefer the W32, although the others had nicer cockpits. This particular W32 had a full cockpit enclosure, which is someone I'd like to have, for year round sailing in our wet, cold climate.

I would buy the Camper and Nicholson 35 and install lazy jacks and forget the other boats. That's really good value for a seriously classy boat!

[sgwright]

Originally Posted by alaskaflyfish

When it comes to slip fees, you pay by the foot-length over all. The economy of a WS is a 32ft boat in a 40ft package. Those appendages cost money to park. Why not buy a real 40 foot boat and enjoy the extra interior and deck space? Maneuvering and slip fees will be the same as a WS. Just a thought.

Yes, good points, and I have looked a few 36-38' boats also, but there are not many in my price range except really old Columbias and the like. They tend to have no more space than a newer 30' boat.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Ramona

I would buy the Camper and Nicholson 35 and install lazy jacks and forget the other boats. That's really good value for a seriously classy boat!

Indeed. There is one moored next to me or was, she crossed the Atlantic a couple of times with the previous owner and has gone travelling again this summer.

It will have more room and less cabin fever than the Nic 31 but still that look back feeling when you row away. Oh and don't over look that Merc 636 engine, well liked this side of the pond http://westfield4x4.com/ What a super yacht for the price.

Pete

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Indeed. There is one moored next to me or was, she crossed the Atlantic a couple of times with the previous owner and has gone travelling again this summer.

It will have more room and less cabin fever than the Nic 31 but still that look back feeling when you row away. Oh and don't over look that Merc 636 engine, well liked this side of the pond OM636 Diesel Engine Spares What a super yacht for the price.

Pete

[picklesandjesse]

Are you feeling the pressure for the Nicholson now ??? The dark blue hull is not too much of a problem in BC because the sun never shines !! I lived there for 25 years before I came back here for birds and sunlight. The deck colour has to go of course but that's not too hard. The spars look like they are anodized too.

And you get a great dinghy to row away and admire the boat from !!!

[sgwright]

Originally Posted by picklesandjesse

Are you feeling the pressure for the Nicholson now ??? The dark blue hull is not too much of a problem in BC because the sun never shines !! I lived there for 25 years before I came back here for birds and sunlight. The deck colour has to go of course but that's not too hard. The spars look like they are anodized too.

And you get a great dinghy to row away and admire the boat from !!!

I will probably go have a closer look at it (I've already walked by it a few times), if only to educate myself a bit more and get a feel for the boat. I wonder how hard it is to get parts for the Merc engine here? I have rebuilt diesels, so doing the work is not a problem. The top sides look like original gel coat and are in good shape (as was the N31 I missed out on) so it would be a shame to paint. The hull is either very well done paint, or original gel, as it looks very smooth. There are tiny crazing lines all over though.

As far as sun, actually, we do get a LOT of sun here in the summer, 60 days without rain last summer, and lots of days over 30C. Even today the sun came out for a few minutes, between the storms passing through...

Thanks for the info, I will hopefully take a tour of it tomorrow.

[sgwright]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Indeed. There is one moored next to me or was, she crossed the Atlantic a couple of times with the previous owner and has gone travelling again this summer.

It will have more room and less cabin fever than the Nic 31 but still that look back feeling when you row away. Oh and don't over look that Merc 636 engine, well liked this side of the pond OM636 Diesel Engine Spares What a super yacht for the price.

Pete

Thanks for the info. This is the earlier version with the hydraulic drive (as seen by the prop exiting the keel). How are hydraulics vs. conventional transmission for reliability?

[Matt Johnson]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Indeed. There is one moored next to me or was, she crossed the Atlantic a couple of times with the previous owner and has gone travelling again this summer.

It will have more room and less cabin fever than the Nic 31 but still that look back feeling when you row away. Oh and don't over look that Merc 636 engine, well liked this side of the pond OM636 Diesel Engine Spares What a super yacht for the price.

Pete

I was going to say " Great boat... except for the engine". Typically hard to get parts in North America, but maybe it's gotten easier over the years with that crazy new fad of internet shopping

edit: Huh... didn't know it was the Volvo MD4.

Matt

[gonesail]

Originally Posted by Ramona

I would buy the Camper and Nicholson 35 and install lazy jacks and forget the other boats. That's really good value for a seriously classy boat!

agree. the nicholson will sail circles around the westsail .. seriously

[picklesandjesse]

Originally Posted by sgwright

I will probably go have a closer look at it (I've already walked by it a few times), if only to educate myself a bit more and get a feel for the boat. I wonder how hard it is to get parts for the Merc engine here? I have rebuilt diesels, so doing the work is not a problem. The top sides look like original gel coat and are in good shape (as was the N31 I missed out on) so it would be a shame to paint. The hull is either very well done paint, or original gel, as it looks very smooth. There are tiny crazing lines all over though.

As far as sun, actually, we do get a LOT of sun here in the summer, 60 days without rain last summer, and lots of days over 30C. Even today the sun came out for a few minutes, between the storms passing through...

Thanks for the info, I will hopefully take a tour of it tomorrow.

30 degrees is a cool day here. We had 42 degrees last week and it's not real summer yet. 49 degrees one day last year. Never had a hot day in Vanc area in 25 years !! Maybe Osoyoos gets a bit warm sometimes. The boat we had was varnished mahogany and quite dark and never got that warm. Also the water temp is cool too so that helps. I remember people complaining in Vancouver after 3 days of low 30's..... very funny.

I hope you like your new boat. 25k offer ?? You might get it at this time of the year for that. Give the wheel the float test though..... she needs a nice curved laminated tiller of yellow cedar and mahogany.

British hydraulics in New West can do any servicing.

[roverhi]

Much as we loved our W32 and think it's a great open ocean/long term cruising boat I'd be check in hand beating down the door of the broker tonight to get it under contract pending a satisfactory survey. The boat is built to Lloyds standards so should be bullet proof. It's an excellent design with the prop tucked well out of the way at the keel and a real skeg with a gudgeon at the bottom supporting the rudder shaft. The long fin keel will take the ground should you want to do a little tide supported bottom work and the keel is encapsulated so no keel bolts to deal with. The separated rudder will make the boat way easier to maneuver in tight spaces. Having owned a couple of cars with those old Mercedes Diesels, it should run forever. Would be willing to bet the sails are going to have to be replaced in the not to distant future but will get you by for at least a few years. That Minto dinghy is icing on the cake.

[sgwright]

I spent an hour going over the N35 today and came away much as I expected: impressed with the quality and design of the boat overall (felt like a roomier N31), but it has just a few too many things to make me hesitate.

First, the good:

- 3rd owner has had it for 20 years, good maintenance logs, does own oil changes 2x/year, etc.
- boat is basically stock, which means no amateur hack jobs, but also dated electronics, etc. Everything seems to work.
- the head design is very nice, close both doors for a centre shower when you want it. He did add a pump out for the shower pan as he didn't like the water going to the bilge, which is a nice touch.
- original gelcoat top and bottom in good shape for age, no paint.
- newer vinyl headliner with teak strips for easy removal looks good
- interior overall good to v.good for age
- yearly haulout and bottom cleaning/painting
- some nice design features, like the head, the pilot seat, the reinforcement ribs inside the hull which also drain the decks below the waterline, preventing staining. Like the N31, it just feels like a quality boat everywhere you step.

And the not so good:
- original engine at 2800 hrs. Yes, I know it's a Merc, but it's still 43 years old, and access to either side means crawling into lockers. Didn't start it.
- the hydraulic drive scares me a bit, as I can imagine things could get expensive if it fails.
- sails are at least 20 years old (main, genoa, jib, and barely used spinnaker), but gently used by current owner in local cruising
- dark blue hull was polished in the summer and already looks poor, so maintenance will be an issue. Prefer white, but I assume painting is a big job.
- light blue topsides really not too my taste, but painting an even bigger job...

Not sure that I could live with a faded hull. If it were white, I'd be very tempted. I'm still pondering it.

[Jim Cate]

2800 hours is nothing for such engines if well maintained (or for most other diesels for that matter). The parts that are likely to be needed are involved with the marinization, not the base engine, and we know nothing about that part of the situation. That engine should be good for 10 K hours with care... the add-on bits perhaps less.

Engine access is often an issue with yachts, so you could find yourself in the same crawly situation in any boat of similar size. Sad fact of life!

I too would be suspicious of the hydraulic drive, but it you become serious about the boat, that should be relatively straight forward to survey. How is access to the drive motor and all the hose runs?

All in, sounds like a pretty useful boat!

Jim

[picklesandjesse]

I've owned 3 boats with hydraulic drive. Never had a problem. They can whine a bit but depends on the unit. If you look for a plaque or something on the unit you should be able to find out who made it. Volvo made one. You should talk to the people at British Hydraulics and ask them about any problems. They are the best people on the West Coast and you have them right there. The end fittings on the hoses can develop a bit of rust if not coated with grease and well wrapped.

Jim is correct of course about the engine placement... fairly typical. I seem to remember that Insatiable has her engine where you can get at it. Thoughtful builder.

[Jim Cate]

Yep, thoughtful builder (Gary McAulay) and thoughtful designer (Jin Sayer). But I suspect that Jon's thoughts were more to have the mass of the engine near the center of the boat more than to have good access!.

I just had to replace the heat exchanger and it was a bitch of a job... even with the complete access. Had the engine been in a hole under the cockpit I might have offed myself rather than tackle it!

Jim