Newer boat vs older in same price range

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by lifeofreilly57

As in anything advertised for sale, what is claimed is not always what you get. I always ask for receipts and names of contractors/yards who did the work, so I can call and verify the story.
One boat that had "all new rigging" actually only had the lower shrouds done to look good at deck level. On the second look at the boat, when I insisted that the whole rig be inspected by getting me up the mast (I brought my own gear) instead of trying to look at it from the deck the owner changed his story.
That's just one of many little white lies I've come across over the years. Doesn't matter how well respected the brand is, or what the price is, it's always best to verify the claims made by the seller.
Rebuilt engine? Really? By whom? Etc, etc.

Yes be careful. Claims are worth nothing. When buying a small powerboat years ago, many sellers claimed "the engine was rebuilt recently". When pressed it usually meant the "former owner (before the current seller) said it was rebuilt"!
You cant really judge a book by it's cover either. I cruised with a couple in the Caribe for a while that had a Hinkley Bermuda. The boat had been in a fire and restored to useable condition. But once I heard that, you could look closely and tell from some interior details. I wonder what the story on that boat is now probably 2 owners later...?

[WindwardPrinces]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Yes be careful. Claims are worth nothing. When buying a small powerboat years ago, many sellers claimed "the engine was rebuilt recently". When pressed it usually meant the "former owner (before the current seller) said it was rebuilt"!
You cant really judge a book by it's cover either. I cruised with a couple in the Caribe for a while that had a Hinkley Bermuda. The boat had been in a fire and restored to useable condition. But once I heard that, you could look closely and tell from some interior details. I wonder what the story on that boat is now probably 2 owners later...?

That can also happen with an Island Packet. I remember hearing about a couple who purchased one that had been found adrift, and then they restored it to really good condition and sold it.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by WindwardPrinces

That can also happen with an Island Packet. I remember hearing about a couple who purchased one that had been found adrift, and then they restored it to really good condition and sold it.

Yes, any boat. I just used that example as it was a related boat.

[robert sailor]

Another thing to keep in mind is that refitting is terribly expensive. If you buy a cheaper built boat that has been ridden hard and put away wet it may be a bad decision to put any money into it as the resale value will only be going down. Many 10 year old ex charter boats sell for pennies on the dollar and might make exceptional buys if your going to use it for local sailing but if you purchase a boat like that and then plan on outfitting it for extensive cruising it might not be wise as it might cost you damn near as much to outfit it as you paid in the first place.

[WindwardPrinces]

On a related note, does anyone here know of any analysis of boat depreciation?

I'd guess it's model dependent, but I'd also guess that there is a generic lifecycle model for sailboats in general.

I'd be interested in what it would look like for Island Packets.

I'd guess they depreciate rather quickly initially, and then more slowly until their value sort of stablizes and is determined by whether all the components are working. Anybody have a general timeline?

[Highland Fling]

Originally Posted by WindwardPrinces

I'd be interested in what it would look like for Island Packets.

I'd guess they depreciate rather quickly initially, and then more slowly until their value sort of stablizes and is determined by whether all the components are working. Anybody have a general timeline?

IP's have serious chain plate issues VERY BAD design and wrong materials used plus their tanks also have big problems.....

Fixing both means taking the boat completely apart and then you find things like mild steel nails being used to hold the furniture modules together Now that is even crazier than the chain plate design.

Google is your friend here do some serious research....... (island packet chain plate problems) NOT knowing a Hinkley BUT understanding they have a reputation for quality vis a vis a well marketed boat 'the IP' I would be inclined to go with the good old boat but then I don't think you could gift me an IP, well you could but it would be sold ASAP.

[Highland Fling]

just had a quick look at a 1987 Hinckley Bermuda 40 MK III Yawl lovely old boat NO CONTEST in my mind between that sort of quality and an IP

1987 Hinckley Bermuda 40 MK III Yawl Sail New and Used Boats

IF you are into this sort of boat well that one for sure looks lovely

[icedog11]

Originally Posted by Highland Fling

just had a quick look at a 1987 Hinckley Bermuda 40 MK III Yawl lovely old boat NO CONTEST in my mind between that sort of quality and an IP

1987 Hinckley Bermuda 40 MK III Yawl Sail New and Used Boats

IF you are into this sort of boat well that one for sure looks lovely

that would be the one. this is the other.2005 Island Packet 420 240 hours Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

[puffcard]

Question for the OP have you been on each boat? These two boats are as different as day and night. There's is more room on a Island Packet 29, than on Hinckley B40. One is a classic with a certain feel and has little room. The other is a fat boat with a ton of room. The B40 is a beautiful boat with her long over hangs, I delivered one from Norfolk the Long Island. Love the classy feel and the cult following it has, but that boat is like a mistress. Requires a lot of maintenance and money to keep her into the comfort she's grown accustom to. It's not the usual first boat or a first choice for going offshore. It's wet, low sided, hobby-horses badly, small tanks, narrow beam, gets knocked on her ass quickly. My suggestion is get on both boats and then go look at a doz more boats before you buy a boat. IP have a bunch of room to suit a liveaboard, most don't sail anything like a B40. This is a huge deci$ion, you need to make it a good one for you. One is the comfy big girl, who's nice to cuddy with at night. The other the high end mistress, is fun to take out and be seen with.

Remember it is easier to get a divorce, than sell a sailboat.

[WindwardPrinces]

Yeah, those are two pretty different boats, and there are lots between those.

[savoir]

Old Hinckleys are overpriced. That is due in part to the brand name premium and in part to the design elegance. If you place a high value either or both attributes then they might not be overpriced at all.

The same can be said of old Little Harbors.

[Jman]

Really hard to imagine choosing between those two boats. One is possibly the most beautiful 40 foot boat designed in the 20th century, the other is puke colored yellow, and is one only pretty to her parents. The B40 will constantly reward you with pride, if that has no merit, choose the IP.

Ours is not a Hinckley, but you can see which way we went.

Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[Dr. Sea]

You didn't say whether you will be financing your purchase. If so, be aware that many financial institutions will not consider financing any boat over 20 years old. And if they do, the terms will not be as good as on a younger boat.

[chris95040]

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by WindwardPrinces

On a related note, does anyone here know of any analysis of boat depreciation?

I'd guess it's model dependent, but I'd also guess that there is a generic lifecycle model for sailboats in general.

I'd be interested in what it would look like for Island Packets.

I'd guess they depreciate rather quickly initially, and then more slowly until their value sort of stablizes and is determined by whether all the components are working. Anybody have a general timeline?

Cruising boats are a little like houses, and a little like helicopters, and less like cars in this regard. They consist of a hull which is usually very long lasting and very low maintenance to which however are attached a multitude of different systems with varying useful lives, some of which are used up according to time and others according to hours, in different proportions.

Like a house, the useful life of the whole collection is nearly unlimited. But unlike a house, there is no real estate -- so no inherent residual value. What this means is that there is a point at which, and this point comes surprisingly quickly -- it makes no sense to invest in renovation, as the value afterwards will be less than the cost of just the renovation. This is somewhat less the case with desirable old boats like Swans or Hinckleys or Little Harbors, and is dramatically much the case with more ordinary production boats.

This is the main reason why cruising boats are so often money pits. Buy a 10 year old boat which has not had a major refit, and you will start replacing systems one after another, and doing other kinds of renovation, and the costs mount up. I made that mistake with my boat -- which was 8 years old, and in very good condition, lightly used with few hours and miles on it, but put back into intense use, the systems started failing one after another, and I have spent probably $150k on various renovations and replacements over the six years I have owned her.

I love my boat, and I probably haven't lost all that $150k, as she is holding her value very well, but I will never do that again. I would only ever do one of two things in future: (a) buy new; or (b) buy a boat which has recently undergone a high quality refit by a loving, well-financed owner (and not a superficial "fix it up to sell" refit).

Based on my experience, new boats are a great deal. Not only financially, but once reasonably shaken down, a new boat will allow you to spend less of your cruises fixing things, which will increase the quality of your cruising. And this is coming from a person who never buys new cars, for example, or new houses. If I ever have another boat, I will have it built new. Unlike real estate, boats have no inherent value except the thing itself. And unlike cars, boats aren't engineered to work basically without repairs for a certain lifetime, allowing you to buy into some part of that lifetime with a reasonable expectation that the remaining balance of that lifetime will be nearly as trouble free as the first part was.