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Old 28-12-2015, 23:54   #31
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Re: newer boat vs older in same price range

Dockhead,

Thanks for the comment. I'd have guessed the optimal time at more like the 10 year point, but I've done exactly that before, and like you say that's often when you have to start replacing some pretty expensive things on a boat, so it might in fact be less than optimal.
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Old 29-12-2015, 01:37   #32
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Re: newer boat vs older in same price range

If old school New England design is what you want then take a look at the Bristol series. They are designed by Ted Hood and roughly half the price of a Hinckley. Take a look at the 38
1987 Bristol 38.8 Sail New and Used Boats for Sale - au.yachtworld.com

and the 35
1984 Bristol 35.5 Sail New and Used Boats for Sale - au.yachtworld.com
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Old 29-12-2015, 01:38   #33
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Re: newer boat vs older in same price range

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Old Hinckleys are overpriced. That is due in part to the brand name premium and in part to the design elegance. If you place a high value either or both attributes then they might not be overpriced at all.

The same can be said of old Little Harbors.
And let's not forget build quality, overall workmanship, joinery, and oh, that important word, "resale". Hinckley over IP, without a bat of an eye. Little Harbors? Yup, the same applies.
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Old 29-12-2015, 02:34   #34
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Re: newer boat vs older in same price range

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Something to consider when making the decision between a newer vs. older boat is what do you have to do to make the older boat new again. Is the electrical system in good shape? Is the engine in need of a major overhaul or even repowering? Is the plumbing system okay or do hoses and pumps need replacing/renewing? How about standing rigging, running rigging, sails? Are the electronics too old?

These are things I look at now in light of buying decisions I have made in the past. I agree that how you feel about a boat is important, but it can sometimes cloud the more rationale side of the decision making process. In the end, like so often when it comes to boats, it's whatever ends up working for you. You may love bringing a slightly older thoroughbred up to date, or you may decide that you'd rather spend the time sailing vs. upgrading. No right or wrong answer there. Good luck with your choice.

J.M.
And Quote Mark J

A new boat is new. Old boats need work - but I have never met a new boat that didn't also need work. . . . I like old boats. Without a doubt old boats need more work. The question then becomes centered around your wallet, your sense of trust, and your personal preference. Are you able to pay for and are comfortable trusting others with your boat - your life? If you believe you get what you pay for, you will likely be happier with a newer boat. If you are a fan of self sufficiency and distrust the . . . . , go with the older boat.

I like old boats because they are elegant and comfortable and because no one today builds boats with a skin as thick as the old boats. I lived on a bendy racer/cruiser for 2 years. In terms of comfort, give me an old school heavy displacement boat any day. But the paycheck for that old heavy displacement boat is often either a LOT of money or a LOT of work.

With the "old" boat, you have to expect to pay for "a lot of" repairs in addition to your purchase price. For a newer boat expect to pay for "a lot, but less, of" different repairs. Don't expect the newer boat to be defect free. Do you know anyone who bought a perfect defect free motor home? Me neither.

Another thing to consider is that newer builders are all about "getting there fast." Many older boats were designed to get you there comfortably.

We are fortunate to still have a choice. The heavy displacement boats are disappearing.
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Old 29-12-2015, 03:31   #35
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Re: newer boat vs older in same price range

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Dockhead,

Thanks for the comment. I'd have guessed the optimal time at more like the 10 year point, but I've done exactly that before, and like you say that's often when you have to start replacing some pretty expensive things on a boat, so it might in fact be less than optimal.
I thought exactly the same, but turned out to be wrong. That's actually the worst time to buy It think. Perfect time to sell.

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Old 29-12-2015, 05:00   #36
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Re: newer boat vs older in same price range

Well said Dock head, couldn't agree more!!!
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Old 29-12-2015, 05:13   #37
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Re: newer boat vs older in same price range

The Hinkley is beautiful. I wouldn't be able to say no to it, regardless of the amount of work it would take to keep it that way.,
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Old 29-12-2015, 05:22   #38
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Re: newer boat vs older in same price range

One thing I have not seen addressed here is ageing or deterioration of GRP hulls.

I often see the sentiment expressed on forums that good thick GRP "lasts forever" and that you'll never have to worry about the hull if you buy a 70's GRP boat. I guess the Hinckley would fall into this category.

I was surprised to read on the MorgansCloud website, in apparent sharp contrast to this:

Quote:
Over the years the boat had done maybe 20,000 miles, not really that much, but enough that the hull had softened, and it started to work. On port tack the doors to the aft and forward cabins could not be closed. Ominous creaking came from the bulkheads.
The author then goes on to talk of extensive work redoing the tabbing of the bulkheads into the hull and reinforcing the bulkheads.

I was wondering what folks here think of this article: Are Refits Worth It?

If the link is paywalled, you'll be allowed to view it by clicking on the "Is Buying An Older Sailboat And Refitting It Worth It?" link at this search.
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Old 29-12-2015, 05:37   #39
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Re: newer boat vs older in same price range

Everything ages but because most of the better quality boats are stick built they can in theory be rebuilt ongoing. The liner boats from what I have learned have a shorter life and can not be rebuilt.
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Old 29-12-2015, 05:42   #40
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Re: newer boat vs older in same price range

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The Hinkley is beautiful. I wouldn't be able to say no to it, regardless of the amount of work it would take to keep it that way.,
Even if it destroyed your goal of cruising?

So the means of getting a life destroys your life?

Its true, many, many people with the goal of long range cruising have not been able to achieve it because they bullheadedly bought the wrong boat: a project boat because the "love" the "lines" (whatever those are) and spend their healthy years fixing it; or a boat the wife hates so she leaves and 20 years marriage goes down the shoot.
Look at the price of an 10 year old IP and you may as well buy a near new plastic production boat or cat - at least your wife won't walk out, and you can crack a tan instead of cracking your back in the bilge fixing some bit of PO gunk.
As for a 40 year old boat with a 28 foot all... sound fine for lake sailors in between gardening at their retirement village.

I just received a tweet from friends who recently bought an old ****-locker... this is 1 month and 200 nms from where they hauled for 2 months doing boat work: "Can't get to Bahamas for Xmas - huge boat work list so in Ft L".

So Christmas and New year in a boat yard because love of esoteric defeated reality. I'm sorry, but I am cruising on my boat! Any ex-wifes want to come join me?

Mark
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Old 29-12-2015, 06:03   #41
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Re: newer boat vs older in same price range

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Even if it destroyed your goal of cruising?

So the means of getting a life destroys your life?

Its true, many, many people with the goal of long range cruising have not been able to achieve it because they bullheadedly bought the wrong boat: a project boat because the "love" the "lines" (whatever those are) and spend their healthy years fixing it; or a boat the wife hates so she leaves and 20 years marriage goes down the shoot.
Look at the price of an 10 year old IP and you may as well buy a near new plastic production boat or cat - at least your wife won't walk out, and you can crack a tan instead of cracking your back in the bilge fixing some bit of PO gunk.
As for a 40 year old boat with a 28 foot all... sound fine for lake sailors in between gardening at their retirement village.

I just received a tweet from friends who recently bought an old ****-locker... this is 1 month and 200 nms from where they hauled for 2 months doing boat work: "Can't get to Bahamas for Xmas - huge boat work list so in Ft L".

So Christmas and New year in a boat yard because love of esoteric defeated reality. I'm sorry, but I am cruising on my boat! Any ex-wifes want to come join me?

Mark
I suppose I should have been more detailed in my response. If I had the wherewithal and only my work was required, I would get the Hinkley. I would simplify it as much as possible to get maintenance as doable as possible.

I don't have the wherewithal, nor do I want a 40 foot boat, so I am aiming for something smaller. But I still need it to be a boat that I find beautiful, and I am willing to accept some level of reduced performance to get it. That's obviously a complicated calculus.

If I were the OP and those were my choices, I would get the Hinkley. I'm not, those are not my choices and interest, so I am looking for something else. Simpler, smaller, but still beautiful.

More power to you for what you are doing, it has been great reading all about your adventures.
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Old 29-12-2015, 06:19   #42
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Re: newer boat vs older in same price range

And for me I would get the Island Packet. Yes the Hinkley is a beautiful boat, but the IP is still a very heavy blue water cruiser capable of going across oceans. It's a much better live on boat with it's wide beam and excellent storage. Yes you will need to do new standing rigger and an engine rebuild sometime in the next five years. But you will not be working on it for the next 3 years to get it ready to cruise, you can sail it the next day after purchase. You still have a beautiful boat, strong build, comfortable in rough seas, and it's a 2005. And the Island Packet does hold it's value better then most. IP made my short list and will always be a boat I covert. Even though it does feel like your driving a tank. Sometimes out there a tank is a good thing.
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Old 29-12-2015, 06:26   #43
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Re: newer boat vs older in same price range

Don't get this cost thing...here in St Martin BOAT FIXING is $50.00 an hour unless you want to use some of the expensive people like ??? who send two people out all the time and chage $75.00/100.00 EACH....... so if my 'whatsit' packs up it does not cost more to repair on a Hinkley than an IP.....

Having a 15 year old Bennie we have a few things 'needing' replaced and two years ago we did a big upgrade replacing all our thro hulls and seacocks with Forespar Marelon ones.

We are constantly upgrading and this year two things NEEDED replaced one a Jabsco Y Valve $100 here or $60 from the USA AND our E120 plotter went dark and sems to have died.....that is a BIG Boat Dollar item BUT we decided to upgrade to an E125 finidng a new one for $1,400 and not having to pay $3,000 plus the other bits needed to integrate the Seatalk NG with our Seatalk 1 system. Oh and the Refrigeration needed a wee regas......

All this sort of work we do ourselves But we pay to have the boat polished bottom cleaned and repainted....this year we have had the rudder Copper Coated as a test to see if this is any good in the Caribbean before we 'think' about having the whole boat CC'ed......

We replaced the Mainsail three years ago and still have the Genoa that came with the boat which was new in 2004/2005. WE love our Bennie BUT IF we had a Hinkley OR a GOD FORBID IP I really don't see how any of the expesnses would change.

NOT that a Hinkley is my sort of boat IF we were to go upmarket and were looking for a BIG NAME Boat that would I suspect be a Swan or an Xboat But then I am contemplating the DARK SIDE......probably a Lagoon 440 or Lagoon 470 not because we 'need' the room but because I would like the ability to cruise at 10+ knots easily. We cruise the Caribbean planning on 6 knots but normally blow that away and 8 knots is our normal result for inter-island hopping. For sure that Hinkley with its long ends is going to have a quite different motion through the water than the Bennie or an IP but I would have thought once it was fully powered up it would romp along.

AND of course once you have your Hinkley there are so many classic regattas that you can take part in, never mind the pride of ownership, getting off the dock is always going to be a problem with people asking you about 'your boat'.

My mindset says an IP is a wondefully 'marketed boat' WITH lots of problems and issues KNOWN problems and issues, Hinkleys I only know by reputation.

Maintaining a Hinkley OR an IP i see as a eachy peachy thing NO big difference UNLESS you are unluckly like we are this season with a BIG BOAT DOLLAR item dying......

Parked next to us here in St Martin is 'something like a Hinkley...could easily be one long overhangs sweeping sheerline and looks lovely.....seems to have two engines as I saw two exhaust pipes splooshing out water when they came in, We have a friend with multimillion pound 76 foot Modern Classic looks lovely and is an immense boat but looking at both these baots I don't feel any envy or desire to have one. I am happy with my Bennie and obviously lots of people are happy with their IP's too IF I was given the choice between the Hinkley and an IP that would be an easy decision for me obviously the OP does not have that clarity of thought.

Mind you posting here and asking 'US' to help is a bit masochistic I was amazed at another thread on the Multi forum someone was contemplating <SIK> buying a $500,000 catamaran and was asking here....why it was unsold, Obviously I have too much time on my hands gently bouncing here in Marigot Bay St Martin, must be something to do with having a well maintained 15 year old Bennie :-)
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Old 29-12-2015, 06:33   #44
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Re: newer boat vs older in same price range

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capable of going across oceans.
Many boats are capable of crossing oceans

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But you will not be working on it for the next 3 years to get it ready to cruise, you can sail it the next day after purchase.
You've seen the boat? Unfair advantage!

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Sometimes out there a tank is a good thing.
Definitely.
IP's aren't the only 'tanks' out there tho, and the no-tanks do fine too.

All in all, it really is a personal preference and no matter what boat you end up with, it'll always be a compromise.
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Old 29-12-2015, 06:50   #45
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Re: newer boat vs older in same price range

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IP's have serious chain plate issues VERY BAD design and wrong materials used plus their tanks also have big problems.....

Fixing both means taking the boat completely apart and then you find things like mild steel nails being used to hold the furniture modules together Now that is even crazier than the chain plate design.

Google is your friend here do some serious research....... (island packet chain plate problems) NOT knowing a Hinkley BUT understanding they have a reputation for quality vis a vis a well marketed boat 'the IP' I would be inclined to go with the good old boat but then I don't think you could gift me an IP, well you could but it would be sold ASAP.
Any IP is twice the quality of any benny-many of who whose rudders and keels simply fall off and kill their crew!
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