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Old 07-09-2010, 17:17   #1
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Newbie Needs Some Help . . . Tacking / Genoa

ok ill start off with the type of boat , alberg 30. It has a roller furler. I guess you can skip reading the whole rest of this if you just awnser the next question? The roller furler is designed to pull the genoa in for when your tacking right? This is only my second year sailing. My problem that i have been having is tacking my boat under a good wind. Its always seems to be that i must tack the boat to get back to the dock. The wind blows me 5 miles out no problem but getting back in is a nightmare. The promlem is i always knew that the boat should tack way better than it does. I understand the theory of tacking. OK NOW TO GET TO THE POINT. I just started researching about sailing(a little late) and found out that i have a genoa(since it goes past my mast quite a bit). When tacking i always seemed like i had too large of a sail. Then yesterday my father(he knows only a little bit) told me that you can reef the genoa. So that got me thinking that maybey that was my tacking problem the entire time(being that i had the genoa fully out into the wind while tacking. So i got to researching and read on this side about using the roller furler and came on some information about this not being the greatest for the sail.
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Old 07-09-2010, 17:42   #2
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A 150 will need some help getting around the other side a 135 should not.

Try blowing your sheet a little later in the turn after the sail has back winded just a bit...it will help pull it through the slot.
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Old 07-09-2010, 17:55   #3
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ok so now im wondering is reefing the sail just so that you can change directions easier?,
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Old 07-09-2010, 17:58   #4
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You should never need to touch the furler to tack, unless there's an inner forestay in the way. Even a 150% genoa should tack just fine with wind alone (mine does).

In normal conditions, with no inner stay, you should be able to tack with wind alone, unless it's super calm. Once you point through the wind and release the jib sheet the sail should get blown over the deck and set up on the other side once you bring the now-leeward sheet in.

The Alberg 30 I think was sloop rigged but might be fitted with a removable inner stay for a storm sail. If you have a removable inner stay and are out in normal conditions, it's probably best to take it down. Just make sure your rig stays properly tensioned afterward.
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Old 07-09-2010, 18:01   #5
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On a Cutter it can be useful as the slot is so narrow or with a 150 to shorten sail before a tack...but that's not its primary usage...Its a storage and or reefing system..Reefing is shorting sail to match wind conditions. ( not all furlers are intended to be used as roller refers by the way)
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Old 07-09-2010, 18:12   #6
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Shortening the genoa is done to help during the tack so you or someone else does not have to be forward to help it round the other side--i.e. without fouling the mast or shrouds; however, in strong wind you would also want to reef the genoa to keep from carrying too much sail.

Depending on how your boat handles, you may also want to let her fall off a little to pick up a bit of speed just prior to performing the tack. If you have insufficient speed the boat may act very sluggish or even be taken all aback when you try to perform the maneuver.
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Old 07-09-2010, 18:13   #7
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A few tips that should help:

- before you tack, come completely close-hauled.
- tack slowly.
- don't release the genoa unti is is backwinded.
- luff the sail until the clew is sheeted fully.
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Old 07-09-2010, 18:51   #8
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Great 1 more question?

just wondering how much does the mainsail position affect your tack?? I just had the boom tied down in the center position could that had possibly made it harder to tack? im guessing i should have let it out some.
Thanks for all the excellent advice i will be sure to apply it to my next sail hopefully tommorow!
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Old 07-09-2010, 19:12   #9
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since im using a genoa i guess then i shoud be running my genoa lines outside of the sidestays straight to the winches?? and not in the little pullys that are mounted to the boat right on the inside on the sidestay?
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Old 07-09-2010, 20:18   #10
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I had an Alberg 35 without roller furling, and a 180 Genoa (my main foresail). The little foresail was a 130, and I almost never used it.

When tacking, we'd hold off releasing the upwind sheet for a moment (just a second or two) to let the sail start to backfill, then flip the sheet off the winch and haul on the new downwind side. The sail managed to get around just fine.

There was a rail and car, and a snatch block just aft of the shrouds each side that we ran the sheets through, to the winch, outside of the stays. The angle would be all wrong to go directly to a winch without a snatch block. The car was adjustable a bit for fine tuning.
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Old 07-09-2010, 21:04   #11
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I don't want to be rude here but you need to take some lessons right away.

I don't think you can learn to sail by reading about it. You can learn the theory but you really can't put it into practice without seeing it live.

If I were in your area I would gladly come and sail with you. Where are you located?

Quote:
The wind blows me 5 miles out no problem but getting back in is a nightmare.
You have a great boat and it is taking good care of you. Many members are offering advice on how to tack your boat and unfortunately no one has yet asked the most fundamental question.

What is wrong with your tacking?

a) The bow of the boat never gets through head to wind?
b) You get head to wind and get stuck there (in irons)
c) the boat starts to tack and the genny gets stuck on the mast/spreader/shroud etc.

My good friend Bash suggests tacking more slowly. If you are getting caught in irons you might need to turn the boat more quickly.

Short answer to your question is that you should almost never have to furl the genny to tack. I have a 150 on my 26 footer and haven't needed to do this in 4 years of sailing.

Depending on the main sail and the weather the main sail can have a huge impact on your ability to tack.

Contrary to my own advice - If you don't get lessons here is a tip that might help.

- Make sure the boat is moving well. A slow boat will surely get caught in irons. You may have to head down a couple of degrees for a minute to get the boat moving. Boat speed is key
- ease the main just slightly
- Come up close hauled but do not delay. This is one fluid motion.
- Continue to turn the boat - you must get "through" head to wind before the speed drops
- As soon as the genny luffs, release the sheet
- Start drawing in the new genny working sheet as soon as the genny "blows" past the mast (do not "drag" the genny across. It is hard on the genny
- Continue turning the boat until established on the new tack
- trim the sails

A 150 genny can be a handful single handed. You could furl the genny in to 100% (clew even with mast) and then leave it there. Don't adjust it. Practice tacks with a 100 genny out for a while.

And please, get some lessons.
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Old 07-09-2010, 21:36   #12
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It sounds like the issue might be not getting the genoa across, or putting the boat on to the other tack, but perhaps that albergsailor can't get the boat to sail upwind effectively. (Is this the case?)

Some boats definitely point better (are more close-winded) than others, but in general to sail upwind you need to control the sail shape. This involves main and genoa trim, genoa sheet lead placement, reefing if required, etc. Go sailing a few times with someone who knows this stuff, and you can quickly learn enough to make a big difference.
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Old 07-09-2010, 21:51   #13
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I agree. Get some lessons! Sailing is a sport of feel. You need to know what you are doing,what's going to happen and,feel it all come together at the right time. You need someone to show and explain to you how to tack (and sail in general ).You don't seem to understand what's going on abord your boat. BTW,If you run your jibsheets directly to your winches,bypassing your fairlead blocks,you'll get an over-ride on your winches every time you try to use them. Find someone who knows how to sail and take them sailing with you til you know what you're doing.
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Old 07-09-2010, 22:26   #14
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alright

im in ohio, lake erie, i had alot of issues the last time i went out. thats the bottom line. i was tripping over everything, i had broken seats(since fixed), i was drinking a little bit earlier(bad idea), i wasnt running my lines through the pullys like i was supposed to, i had the boom tight and not adjusted properly. I wasnt even planning on going sailing it was spur of the moment(not good idea on a sumwhat unprepared boat. What i need is pure practice. Im sure i would have had more time on the water this year but i got in a little motorcycle accident and a month of my summer went down the drain. So for the past month i have been fixing up this boat. Now for the rest of summer im just going to practice tacking. Still though there was alot of uncertainty about things but you guys all really surpassed my expectations in your kindly advice. And even though you may not realize it youve all been a great help. ps. even though i think this little chat has probably made me 50% better sailor im still going to have my dads friend and my father go out with me hopefully soon here since the best way to learn is from a someone with some experience, and yes the alberg is a great boat as long as your not afraid to do some work...!!
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Old 07-09-2010, 23:05   #15
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Re: your boom question.

If your on anything but a very close haul, like a beam reach you do want to center up the boom as your starting your turn, then ease it back out again after ...it keeps the boom from crashing over to the other side.....3 times more important on a jibe then on a tack but still important...the bigger the boat the more important.
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