Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 02-06-2015, 15:05   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 1
New to the Forum - Battery Question

Hi Folks,
East Penn Deka batteries have been strongly recommended to me for my 40' monohull. I am wanting to get 3 new 4D AGM's. The person I spoke to is a very experienced sailor and has had them on his boat for, get this, 12 years! Has anyone else had experience with East Penn Deka's? Are they that good? Price is about half of Lifelines.
Thanks from a newbie!
Gary
Freed Spirit
__________________

__________________
Freed Spirit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2015, 21:57   #2
Registered User
 
NewMoon's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Holladay, UT
Boat: Nordic Tugs 37
Posts: 285
Images: 13
Re: New to the Forum - Battery Question

My first house bank of Deka AGM's, 2x 12V group 31's, lasted 11 summers of cruising. No generator, lots of overnight anchoring with no charging system on, and charged mostly by the Balmar alternator and smart regulator. Sure worked well for me.
__________________

__________________
Richard Cook
Dream Catcher (Nordic Tugs 37)
"Cruising in a Big Way"
NewMoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2015, 22:03   #3
Registered User
 
Finistere's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Bear, DE
Boat: Island Packet 37 - Finistere
Posts: 233
New to the Forum - Battery Question

Last house bank of 4 Deka group 31 lasted 12 years


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
Finistere is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2015, 05:03   #4
Registered User
 
ranger42c's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Maryland, USA
Boat: 42' Sportfish
Posts: 2,984
Re: New to the Forum - Battery Question

Gary, if these are for your house loads, you might search the forum for info about the virtues of true deep cycle 6V golf cart batteries.


-Chris
__________________
Selby Bay, South River, Chesapeake Bay, USA.
ranger42c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2015, 05:30   #5
Moderator Emeritus
 
GordMay's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 31,583
Images: 240
Re: New to the Forum - Battery Question

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Gary.
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2015, 05:41   #6
Marine Service Provider
 
Maine Sail's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Maine
Boat: CS-36T - Cupecoy
Posts: 3,060
Re: New to the Forum - Battery Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freed Spirit View Post
Hi Folks,
East Penn Deka batteries have been strongly recommended to me for my 40' monohull. I am wanting to get 3 new 4D AGM's. The person I spoke to is a very experienced sailor and has had them on his boat for, get this, 12 years! Has anyone else had experience with East Penn Deka's? Are they that good? Price is about half of Lifelines.
Thanks from a newbie!
Gary
Freed Spirit
Sounds like he had Deka GEL batteries not their AGM's..... This would not be out of the ordinary for a Deka GEL bank, but would be like winning the lottery for a Deka AGM, could happen but pretty unlikely.

The Deka AGM's are rated for considerably less deep cycles than the Deka GEL batteries, 370 cycles for Deka AGM and 1000 cycles for the Deka GEL...

You also may want to check out the May 2015 issue of Practical Sailor where PSOC (partial state of charge) use was examined in AGM batteries. Not all AGM batteries are built the same, and this article could pay for itself with one poor purchasing decision...

Fighting Sulfation In AGM's - Practical Sailor (LINK)




.
__________________
Marine How To Articles
Maine Sail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2015, 05:57   #7
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Chesapeake Region and Maine
Boat: 42' Bob Perry sloop
Posts: 4,038
Images: 4
Re: New to the Forum - Battery Question

I'm betting MaineSail is right: never saw an AGM battery in service last 10-12 years. But, have seen lots of gels do that.

One problem with such reports is that there is no standard for "end of service". ALL LA batteries -- flooded, AGM, gels, etc. -- begin losing capacity shortly after they are manufactured. They continue to do so until the user judges them to be in need of replacement.

OK, when is that? When they have only 90% of original capacity remaining? Or 80%? Or 70%? Or 50%? Or even less??

We tend to use car batteries until they won't start the car any longer. At this point, they may have only a fraction of their original capacity remaining, but the day before when they started the car they were still "good".

Of the three main types of LA batteries, the gels have the longest usable life, flooded batteries next, and AGMs dead last.

For many sailors, and depending on how you use your boat, AGMs are a terrible choice.

Bill
__________________
btrayfors is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2015, 10:32   #8
Registered User
 
ranger42c's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Maryland, USA
Boat: 42' Sportfish
Posts: 2,984
Re: New to the Forum - Battery Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
You also may want to check out the May 2015 issue of Practical Sailor where PSOC (partial state of charge) use was examined in AGM batteries. Not all AGM batteries are built the same, and this article could pay for itself with one poor purchasing decision...

Fighting Sulfation In AGM's - Practical Sailor (LINK)

Thanks for posting that!



Quote:
Originally Posted by btrayfors View Post
I'm betting MaineSail is right: never saw an AGM battery in service last 10-12 years. But, have seen lots of gels do that.

Our oldest AGM bank -- 3x Odyssey PC2150s (G31s) -- has just entered its tenth season, and seems to be hanging in there.

OTOH, I don't have a SOC meter... and also we typically recharge on shorepower often (usually daily) or sometimes 2x/day on the genset for a week or two here or there). IOW, our PSOC usage is limited, unlike what more typical cruisers here face

-Chris
__________________
Selby Bay, South River, Chesapeake Bay, USA.
ranger42c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2015, 11:18   #9
Marine Service Provider
 
Maine Sail's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Maine
Boat: CS-36T - Cupecoy
Posts: 3,060
Re: New to the Forum - Battery Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by ranger42c View Post
Thanks for posting that!






Our oldest AGM bank -- 3x Odyssey PC2150s (G31s) -- has just entered its tenth season, and seems to be hanging in there.

OTOH, I don't have a SOC meter... and also we typically recharge on shorepower often (usually daily) or sometimes 2x/day on the genset for a week or two here or there). IOW, our PSOC usage is limited, unlike what more typical cruisers here face

-Chris
Not atypical life for what I call UPS / uninterrupted power supply use with a premium AGM battery. If you tie to a dock every day or get back to full regularly any battery can last a long time.. If however you start to deep cycle and do not get back to full regularly then your batteries can sulfate rather quickly. The Odyssey did quite well in the Practical Sailor PSOC testing and was only beat by the Firefly AGM...

I regularly capacity test AGM & GEL batteries from boats that are cruised or mooring sailed. The differences between the PSOC deep cycling AGM's and dock sailed AGM's is like night and day... Solar can dramatically lenghthen life for those who sail off moorings...
__________________
Marine How To Articles
Maine Sail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2015, 12:01   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 17
Re: New to the Forum - Battery Question

You should get the east penn batteries they will treat you well
__________________
solarsam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2015, 13:42   #11
Registered User
 
ranger42c's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Maryland, USA
Boat: 42' Sportfish
Posts: 2,984
Re: New to the Forum - Battery Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
Not atypical life for what I call UPS / uninterrupted power supply use with a premium AGM battery. If you tie to a dock every day or get back to full regularly any battery can last a long time.. If however you start to deep cycle and do not get back to full regularly then your batteries can sulfate rather quickly. The Odyssey did quite well in the Practical Sailor PSOC testing and was only beat by the Firefly AGM...

That's a very apt description of our situation. And I've been pleased with the Odysseys. Although I'm still mostly planning to replace that bank of 3x G31s with 4x Lifeline GC2s whenever the time comes.

Driven partly by hours of trolling on one engine; at least half that time, it means our electronics suite (on the bank in question) is drawing the batteries waaaaayyyy down. Then also that same bank feeds half our house (including one fridge) so drawdown at anchor should be slightly improved.

Some of the question there was about cranking amps, but a bank of 4x GC2s should easily have enough headroom for that engine. (Double-checked with the Lifeline folks).

The Firefly does read technically nifty. I wonder if a golf cart version would similarly bring PSOC improvements to the table.

-Chris
__________________
Selby Bay, South River, Chesapeake Bay, USA.
ranger42c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2015, 14:13   #12
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 41
Re: New to the Forum - Battery Question

Lithium may be the future but I will take the FAA's position that thermal runaway is still a real possibility for now. Not all AGM's are equal, Lifeline and Odyssey stand out on performance and longevity, more than any other AGM battery we've worked with, unless you want flooded batteries which we find Rolls and Surrette have been exceptional contenders. Trojan 6vlt seem to be a good value as well. Like most things you get what you pay for. Longevity on a boat plugged into shore power 85% of its life is totally different from a cruiser who cycles their batteries daily. Gel batteries have the highest failure rate in the marine world due to the exceptional number of ways the charge algorithm can get corrupted from alternators, wind, solar, etc.. Unlike the other battery technologies, they have no tolerance for even slight overcharging, they will crystallize internally. This is an empirical opinion based on commissioning over 1500 cruising sailboats and trawlers of the past 25 years, not an analytical one. We are very fortunate to keep many of our customers through several boat iterations and benefit from a full performance review.... and getting the vicarious satisfaction of being part of their cruise....
__________________
bobw100ton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2015, 20:36   #13
Senior Cruiser
 
senormechanico's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2003
Boat: Dragonfly 1000 trimaran
Posts: 5,830
Re: New to the Forum - Battery Question

We got ten years out of a Prevailer 8D.
Waiting to see how our LiFePo4's do.
So far 3 years or so and they're GOLDEN.
__________________
Memento,homo, quia pulvis es, et in pulverem reverteris.
senormechanico is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2015, 21:33   #14
Registered User
 
Finistere's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Bear, DE
Boat: Island Packet 37 - Finistere
Posts: 233
Re: New to the Forum - Battery Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
Sounds like he had Deka GEL batteries not their AGM's..... This would not be out of the ordinary for a Deka GEL bank, but would be like winning the lottery for a Deka AGM, could happen but pretty unlikely.

The Deka AGM's are rated for considerably less deep cycles than the Deka GEL batteries, 370 cycles for Deka AGM and 1000 cycles for the Deka GEL...

You also may want to check out the May 2015 issue of Practical Sailor where PSOC (partial state of charge) use was examined in AGM batteries. Not all AGM batteries are built the same, and this article could pay for itself with one poor purchasing decision...

Fighting Sulfation In AGM's - Practical Sailor (LINK)




.

AGM group 31


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
Finistere is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2015, 04:31   #15
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 811
Re: New to the Forum - Battery Question

I have had 2 yellow Optima AGM house batteries for 12 years and they are still going strong. My blue Optima starting battery only lasted 10 years and has been replaced with the same again. They are all on solar panels and my 80 amp generator uses a Next Step smart regulator. Other advantages are no fumes and no spill. They are installed under the quarter berths. I don't know the East Penn Deka batteries but I can vouch for AGMs and I guess price is the decider. With all rechargeable batteries it's important to keep them charged properly for long life. I would stay away from LI batteries in a boat. Steve Fossett's record breaking catamaran PlayStation (around 100') had a battery explosion causing a lot of damage while moored in Auckland NZ Viaduct Basin some years ago. I understand it was a LI battery. Saved weight though for the 24 hr speed record. I've had a lot of good experience with lithium ion TV camera batteries and there are very strict regulations about size etc when carrying them on board aircraft due to the possibility of fire.
__________________

__________________
GrahamHO is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
battery, rum

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New to site ... Question about adding a second battery Csimoni Monohull Sailboats 11 23-08-2013 14:07
General Info: New Forum and Sub-Forum Janet H Fountaine Pajot 13 02-08-2011 15:00
Wiring My Battery Charger to the Battery Switch ? Shoalcove Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 10 23-08-2010 17:24
Battery charger to replace battery? lilly Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 5 22-07-2006 19:11



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:18.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.