New sailor, trying to narrow down what to get for my next boat.

[VinnyVincent]

Thanks for the push in the right direction, van. I really like the catalina 30, so I wanted this to work out. I just need to be patient. I also saw one of the tartans that was up for sale at the same marina and it looked pretty ran down. I was thinking maybe I was being too picky. I guess I just need to shop around this winter...

[Sailmonkey]

1984 HUNTER SAILBOAT INBOARD DIESEL VERY LOADED CLEAN DRY SOLID

lots of good deals on craigslist too.....just keep checking.

[GrowleyMonster]

Originally Posted by VinnyVincent

Okay, so I looked at a catalina 30 today. 1977. it is slipped at a good spot for where I will be sailing, which is transferrable.

good:
original sails look to be in good shape, very crisp.
boat is only 7500 OBO
ports have been resealed
only model around, already at a slip where. could sail in the waters I intend on. interior in relatively good shape, plus I can stand upright.

bad:
hitting the deck with a screwdriver, there seems to be a different pitch sound that is barely noticeable near on of the shrouds.

also on deck, there is a barely noticeable cracking noise when you step in an area about the size of a shoe. We walked the whole deck and thats the only spot that isn't solid as a rock.

has original rigging, although it looks like it's in good condition...he also mentioned that he put new backing under through hoke rail fittings, but never redid the thru hull rigging fittings.

when I opened the bilge, it was full of water. is this a bad sign? he claims the pump works.

diesel engine woildn't start and cabin smells of diesel. he said the tank had sluge in it and he had been using an extrernal fuel tank, which he didn't have...would likely swap for an outboard.

Looks like it's been sitting a long time, although he claims to have sailed 6 months ago.

Although he claims to have had a bottom job done seven years ago, he says the seacocks were okay and he never replaced them.

Seems to have been a repair done near the roller fuller, but he says it was there when he got the boat. seems old, I belive him. very small area.





Where do i go from here? should I get a survey done?

Way overpriced. With a good running diesel engine and new standing rigging, after going for a sail with the seller, yes it would be worth considering, and so a survey would be warranted. As it is, it isn't worth much. What is wrong with the diesel?

Water in the bilge is not necessarily a dealbreaker. But if you pump it down dry one day and the next day she's full of water and it isn't coming from the stuffing box, yeah that would be an issue. Repairing the two soft spots you found probably wouldn't be a big deal. Original stays and shrouds should have been changed at least once by now, if not twice. And a non running diesel obviously is a big deal since you don't know what it will take to get it running.

[VinnyVincent]

He claims it runs good and that the fuel in the tank is just old and has turned to slush. He says he had just been using a hose rigged up to a jug and it runs fine. It does turn over very easily, but obviously since he didn't bring fuel, I didn' hear it run.
Seems to me that for whatever reason the boat had been sitting a very long time. I noticed the last time it was registered was 2009.
He left the keys in it and told me to feel free to do what I needed to check it out...Im going sailing with casey tomorrow and his slip is close. MaybeI can get him to come check it out with me.

Either way I will be shopping around more before spending any cash on anything.

It's craigslist, so I would imagine 7500OBO is much more than he is willing to accept.

[Schrewsburyduo]

I agree with much that has been said. I learnt to sail on a beach cat in nz. Fastest boat I sailed was one of the Americas cup boats in Auckland (the last of the monohull series). If you are used to speed, that's the only monohull that would compare to the planing cat feeling. Sadly displacement monohulls don't do that...

Having said that I am currently snuggling in the berth of our 32 ericson which turns out to be a pretty fast boat. For my wife and I it has become our weekend getaway. You can pick them up for 10k or so. I also sailed a catalina 27 previously and we got this larger boat because the catalina was just a but small for us. It did sail amazingly and we ended up selling it for a really good price (for the buyer...). Some other boats I would consider:

Tartan 30. This is on of the most underrated boats. The proportions look really good, this is a spark an and Stevens design those guys were amazing. The engine placement is so easy to service its under one of the settees in the middle of the boat, not order the companionway stairs. You can pick them for cheap.

Cal 31

Ericson 27, 29, 31, and especially 32-2.

Pearson triton (not too fast, but not a slow boat. You can't find a better made boat for that cheap in my opinion)

Contessa 26. Especially the j j Taylor Canadian made boat. This is SMALL on the inside, but they are extremely fast for a full keel boat.

Bristol 27.

You can find good examples of all of those boats right about 10-12k-14k. For the higher price range you will get a better boat, and you will end up spending more on your own upgrades, like a new set of sails (3k), which you will really like if you are used to sail fast cats. These would include a cross cut main and a triradial Genoa - we found that to be the sweet spot for fast upwind and great reaching.

Have fun, and don't go for the deal until you have been on, and have sailed on a few boats. I am partial to the ericsons, and you can look at the users group they are a bunch of very friendly people and the form is very very helpful. You can find who has what boat in your area and ask who is going out and you can find some boats to go sail on so you can see the space below and how that figures out with your height and the needs of the admiral etc.

We definitely take long trips with the boat and are planning a circumnavigation of Long Island ny next year. It makes for a sense of actual navigation, preparation etc. And even though 7 knots is most of what you can get out of such a boat, it is still exhilarating at times. I find I don't miss the speed of cats and also I would not trade the comfort of amenities for the speed of a j boat etc.

All the best to you! Let us know what you end up buying.

[GrowleyMonster]

Originally Posted by VinnyVincent

He claims it runs good and that the fuel in the tank is just old and has turned to slush. He says he had just been using a hose rigged up to a jug and it runs fine. It does turn over very easily, but obviously since he didn't bring fuel, I didn' hear it run.
Seems to me that for whatever reason the boat had been sitting a very long time. I noticed the last time it was registered was 2009.
He left the keys in it and told me to feel free to do what I needed to check it out...Im going sailing with casey tomorrow and his slip is close. MaybeI can get him to come check it out with me.

Either way I will be shopping around more before spending any cash on anything.

It's craigslist, so I would imagine 7500OBO is much more than he is willing to accept.

Make sure the fuel tank doesn't LEAK. Aluminum fuel tanks often get ate through on the bottom. Happened to mine and I couldn't get the tank out without pulling the engine out. That's when I decided to repower altogether with an electric motor. In my case the tank rested on a plywood bed with galvanized screw heads exposed. Eventually electrolysis created two small holes in the bottom of the tank. Happens, when dissimilar metals are in contact in a moist environment, especially with any electrical potential. Anyway that would explain diesel fuel in the bilge, yeah, though to be fair it could easily occur due to jury rigged fuel lines to and from a jug.

What engine? How many and what kind of sails?

Be sure you have the lease nailed down solid on the slip, before any nonrefundable money changes hands, if you buy.

Figure on replacing all your wires early in your ownership. They often corrode down inside the fittings on the lower end. Stainless gets crevice corrosion when air can't get to it. Lots of dismissing occur because of this, even when the exposed wire looks great. Consider upsizing, too. Consult with knowledgeable owners or riggers. Some 70s boats turned out later to have undersized wire, and many were upgraded, especially the Cal 2-27.

Good luck! The owners willingness to let you take it out is a good sign. Most guys wouldn't dream of it unless they rode along, and if they got something to hide, not even then.

[HappyMdRSailor]

Vinny,

Growly is giving some spectacular advice here... Bonus is the owner letting you check it out on your own... This is the only reason I would pursue this one... Way overpriced still...

Aren't you kinda curious where his diesel jug (day tank) is??? Maybe he's got a diesel lawn mower at home...

The Craigslist Hunter listed is a pretty good steal... If you could talk it down even a smidge...

[GrowleyMonster]

I think you need the seller to walk you through the process of rigging the fuel supply, too. There may actually be 2 lines to the fuel tank, one being a return line. Gasoline engines don't usually need a return line so I am wondering if maybe the boat has an Atomic 4 and not a diesel? Anyway try to get the guy to start the engine while you watch.

Btw, is there an outboard mount on the transom?

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by VinnyVincent

He claims it runs good and that the fuel in the tank is just old and has turned to slush. He says he had just been using a hose rigged up to a jug and it runs fine. It does turn over very easily, but obviously since he didn't bring fuel, I didn' hear it run.
Seems to me that for whatever reason the boat had been sitting a very long time. I noticed the last time it was registered was 2009.
He left the keys in it and told me to feel free to do what I needed to check it out...Im going sailing with casey tomorrow and his slip is close. MaybeI can get him to come check it out with me.

Either way I will be shopping around more before spending any cash on anything.

It's craigslist, so I would imagine 7500OBO is much more than he is willing to accept.

A Cat 30 WITH Diesel at $7500 isn't a bad deal at all. Especially if it is the Universal diesel. If the one lung Yanmar, I've seen then at that price before. The key is to determine if the diesel is shot or just as he says. Might be worth your time to investigate further. Is it a universal diesel? or a one lung Yanmar?
Most any old boat you find will have the potential issues you mention. (rigging, deck, lack of TLC0 How hard is it to remove/replace the fuel tank in the cat 30? Look at those things. With a little universal diesel, you don't need a very big tank at all. If putting a new plastic tank in isn't too hard not a deal killer. A stock size plastic tank is pretty cheap.
For all you know the fuel just needs polished.
The Cat 30 is a popular boat, not exactly a blue water boat, but pretty good as light production boats go.. It is huge compared with say a Contessa 26.... due to the narrow design of the Contessa. (I had one)
Sometimes the great deals are the ones that no one else is willing to investigate thoroughly. OTOH... be prepared ... to have a lot of projects with any old boat that the PO hasn't totally refitted!

[Jim Cate]

G'Day Vinny,

This subject has been worked over extensively here on CF, and much of the advice posted above is excellent. I'd like to make a couple of comments:

The picture that you paint is of an owner who has failed in every way to properly maintain his boat. Instead of repairing his fuel system, he does a kluge work-around. Original rigging??? Condemned by any survey or insurance company. Original sails??? There is simply no chance that they are in good shape. Bilge full of water and fuel??? It got there somehow, and until you determine the source you must consider it a deal breaker IMO. Is the water fresh (rain intrusion) or salt (leak in hull, plumbing or engine)??? Rain intrusion in these boats suggests the possibility of bulkhead rotting in way of the chain plates (this is from memory that at least one of the shroud chain plates is bolted to the main bulkhead). Engine turns over easily but won't start??? Low compression is a strong possibility. Does this owner sound like a guy who regularly changed the oil ??? Hasn't been out of the water for how many years??? Does the possibility of severe osmotic blistering not enter your mind? The growth must be awful by now, so a sea trial will not be very rewarding... if it will move at all!

Vinny, this just sounds like a very bad boat to me. In general, the Cat-30 was an enormously successful design, and a good one will for sure be adequate for the usage you propose. Please keep looking... there are a lot of them (and other suitable designs) on the market, and some of them will be far better than this one.

Don't get discourage, and good luck in your search!

Jim

[VinnyVincent]

It would seem a second look is in order.
unfortunately the seller forgot to leave the keys. I would have to meet him again. He says the engine is a yanmer and insists the tank doesn't leak.

So, bring a fuel tank with diesel to check the engine. Drain bilge to see if it refills later or not, check for outboard mounts... what else should I check based on the info?


from what I am reading, fuel tank replacement iis easy

on a C30.

If it runs good, what other major issues should I be looking for?

Im already assuming it needs new rigging, possible small deck repairs a.d i am concerned about the thru hull fittings, since he mentioned they were "good" seven years ago...but Don't know how to inspect them.

Can't help but notice most C30's are in the 20,000 plus range that ve seen for sale and this one is in my back yard...already in a perfect spot with the slip available.

[GrowleyMonster]

Originally Posted by VinnyVincent

It would seem a second look is in order.
unfortunately the seller forgot to leave the keys. I would have to meet him again. He says the engine is a yanmer and insists the tank doesn't leak.

So, bring a fuel tank with diesel to check the engine. Drain bilge to see if it refills later or not, check for outboard mounts... what else should I check based on the info?


from what I am reading, fuel tank replacement iis easy

on a C30.

If it runs good, what other major issues should I be looking for?

Im already assuming it needs new rigging, possible small deck repairs a.d i am concerned about the thru hull fittings, since he mentioned they were "good" seven years ago...but Don't know how to inspect them.

Can't help but notice most C30's are in the 20,000 plus range that ve seen for sale and this one is in my back yard...already in a perfect spot with the slip available.

It's starting to sound not too bad. Worth taking her out for a sail. If there is an outboard mount, a borrowed outboard would be good insurance against stranding and becoming a poster boy for seatow.

I think most of the most likely negative things have been covered. Except obviously you can expect to replace lots of little plastic and aluminum doodads due to normal deterioration, of course. A normal thing on boats of a certain age.

The boat is a very successful and popular model. If this is a decent one and you can negotiate the price down a touch, assuming the test drive is satisfactory, I'm ready to give it thumbs up. My personal rule is if the price is over 5 k, it needs a survey cause me and my friends aren't gonna catch everything. A good surveyor is worth the money. Haul it out and do it good and proper, too. If you make a deal on it, you can take care of any work that needs doing on the hard, at the same time, and save the money the next haul out would cost.

Don't need to replace the tank if it is just full of crap. You can flush and clean it, or hire somebody to do it. If it leaks then obviously replace it.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by VinnyVincent

It would seem a second look is in order.
unfortunately the seller forgot to leave the keys. I would have to meet him again. He says the engine is a yanmer and insists the tank doesn't leak.

So, bring a fuel tank with diesel to check the engine. Drain bilge to see if it refills later or not, check for outboard mounts... what else should I check based on the info?


from what I am reading, fuel tank replacement iis easy

on a C30.

If it runs good, what other major issues should I be looking for?

Im already assuming it needs new rigging, possible small deck repairs a.d i am concerned about the thru hull fittings, since he mentioned they were "good" seven years ago...but Don't know how to inspect them.

Can't help but notice most C30's are in the 20,000 plus range that ve seen for sale and this one is in my back yard...already in a perfect spot with the slip available.

You really need to have the boat hauled and inspect the bottom. Sitting that long in the water you could have a major blister problem.
You also need to check for the infamous Catalina smile fore and aft of the keel. (crescent shaped hull cracks from hitting the keel and the thin hull flexing)
If the Yanmar is the one lung little diesel.... usually raw cooled, you need to run the engine long enough to make sure it is not overheating as the block could be filled up with corrosion and no good.
Check for any evidence of the keel bolts leaking. water around the keel bolts?
These type of things could make that boat cost you $20000 even after paying $7500 for it.

[HappyMdRSailor]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

You really need to have the boat hauled and inspect the bottom. Sitting that long in the water you could have a major blister problem.
You also need to check for the infamous Catalina smile fore and aft of the keel. (crescent shaped hull cracks from hitting the keel and the thin hull flexing)
If the Yanmar is the one lung little diesel.... usually raw cooled, you need to run the engine long enough to make sure it is not overheating as the block could be filled up with corrosion and no good.
Check for any evidence of the keel bolts leaking. water around the keel bolts?
These type of things could make that boat cost you $20000 even after paying $7500 for it.

Jim and Growly have further excellent points that none should be disregarded... BUT... Cheechako is the one I am going to quote....

I bought the 22 down that way sitting in the same waters... There was hard growth on the waterline that scraped off easily with a paddle... My MAJOR mistake was thinking this was all "relatively recent" hard growth by how easy it came off... Pulling the boat was a a completely different story...

Look here....
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ll-109426.html

Most took this as a rant, and that I was pissed... I assure you I wasn't... Just take a look at the pictures to realize what hull neglect can do...

PS: The boat's a HOOT!

[VinnyVincent]

^ Wow, definitley don't want that happening. I had planned to haul it out if I do end up getting it.

The question is, whether or not it's even worth having it hauled out, or if I should just move on. I am meeting him today so he can start the engine. Thereis no wind, so I may see if he can at least hoist the sails and rig everrthing, so I can see that it'sfunctional.