New buy. Custom vs Production

[Efraim]

Well we think we've our research on buying a new boat and have come to conclusion that maybe a one off custom boat might be the way to go.
We've chartered a few times, talked to some boat owners, we know a charter boat company owner and visited a couple of big name boat factories.
After carefully considering our needs vs what the manufactures are willing to do, we came to the conclusion that to get the boat we want, with the least amount of comprimises on our part, we would have to get a custom made boat.

A custom build was pretty much out of the question due to cost, however after getting estimates of a custom build AND comparing how much it would cost to do the inevidable upgrades to a production boat..turns out the difference is pretty damn small. In some case it's even cheaper to go custom, since you aren't replacing all the "stock" equipment to get your boat ready for serious sailing!

The drawbacks to a custom build: takes time to get a design completed, and takes time for the builder to actually build the boat, sea trials etc, your not going sailing soon. The other drawback is resale value, custom boats don't get the money a well known brand gets, and that's fact.

[never monday]

Talk to some of the more reputable names. Morris, Pac Seacraft, Hinckley, etc...they can do custom input to a design they already have molds for.

[Jon D]

As Pat said above there is an in-between the semi custom builders who take 'stock' hulls/decks and let you customize around bulkheads etc. I would suggest Morris Yachts, Shannon, Passport, Hylas, Tayana, Gozzard, Taswell, Valiant as some builders who can do that. There are a number of others that will modify equipment but not significant interior changes as well. Realizing that getting in the schedule is half the challenge.

[Talbot]

Be warned by http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...boat-5872.html, and if going the custom route, employ a surveyor to oversea the build and completion of your boat.

IIRC Broadblue also offer a degree of custom completion

[Claus]

Talbot,you are right.The Broadblue company offers a great degree of custom completion.I am actually in discussion for a BB-385 and there are a great flexibility from the company for all my wishes!Greetings from Germany,Claus

[Efraim]

Thanks for the suggestions, but we've contacted practically all of the above mentioned builders, and while they are willing to do some customization, there is a limit to what they will do.
For example we are looking for either a ketch or possibly a schooner rig, with a hard dodger (an absolute must) not too many builders will rework the rig and design a dodger.
Although the absolute max is 40ft, we only want room to sleep 2, with the occational short term guest, the old "entertain 8, dine 6 and sleep 2" type of thing, we don't want or need lots of bunks, we want storage. We would also like the sleeping area amidship. We also have our own ideas about the layout of the head as well, the admiral it pretty small, and a head where one can't brace oneself in a rough sea while healed over has proven to be somewhat useless. ( I being polite ).
This brings up the point of over all ergonomics, we figure that since this is going to cost big bucks one way or the other why not have exactally want one wants. What's the point of having lockers or hand holds that are too high to reach or an engine room with poor access, or other on board systems that you practically have to take the boat apart to service?

[Claus]

Talbot are right,there are a great custom completion from Broadblue.I am actually in discussion for a BB-385 and the company have a great flexibility for all my wishes. Greetings from germany,Claus

[DeepFrz]

You didn't go into detail on the research you have done and you may have already seen these articles, however always worth a mention.

The Joys and Pitfalls of Buying a New Boat - Part 1 - SailNet Community

[Claus]

Excuse -me,I am new in the Forum and I see I have posted twice.

You only want the construction in fiber-glass or you can also think about Aluminium?If -yes-than you can have a look for "strongall" (META)

[Joli]

Originally Posted by Efraim

Thanks for the suggestions, but we've contacted practically all of the above mentioned builders, and while they are willing to do some customization, there is a limit to what they will do.
For example we are looking for either a ketch or possibly a schooner rig, with a hard dodger (an absolute must) not too many builders will rework the rig and design a dodger.
Although the absolute max is 40ft, we only want room to sleep 2, with the occational short term guest, the old "entertain 8, dine 6 and sleep 2" type of thing, we don't want or need lots of bunks, we want storage. We would also like the sleeping area amidship. We also have our own ideas about the layout of the head as well, the admiral it pretty small, and a head where one can't brace oneself in a rough sea while healed over has proven to be somewhat useless. ( I being polite ).
This brings up the point of over all ergonomics, we figure that since this is going to cost big bucks one way or the other why not have exactally want one wants. What's the point of having lockers or hand holds that are too high to reach or an engine room with poor access, or other on board systems that you practically have to take the boat apart to service?

Looks like you're racing Albacores, good for you, good boats.

Where do you want to cruise? There are all sorts of boats on the market place that would fit the bill. Maybe something like Beth and Evan's firstboat Silk. Welcome to Beth Leonard & Evans Starzinger's home page

Hard dodgers are nice and can be worked in to most any boat or if the going is not to tough canvas is fine.

Breaking up the sail plan on a 40 footer is not really required. The main on a 40 may look huge comapred to an Albacore but its really not that big.

Here is another broker that may be good for you to talk with. RogueWave Yacht Sales & Services, LLC. (Annapolis, MD)

Good luck

[yotphix]

If you are considering custom, make sure to talk to Kanter. www.kanter.com. Kanter enjoys a great rep and their boats seem to enjoy pretty good resale value.

[Pblais]

For example we are looking for either a ketch or possibly a schooner rig, with a hard dodger (an absolute must) not too many builders will rework the rig and design a dodger. Although the absolute max is 40ft, we only want room to sleep 2

When you say you want a Ketch or a Schooner 40ft max you have a pretty odd duck. Given the two have almost nothing in common it's not all that clear where this idea of yours is headed. If you try to draw it out on paper I'm not sure what the boat you are looking for would be like. Much of it seems conflicting unless you remove the preconcieved end result and just look at the fundemental performance features you say you really want.

No need to go to a ketch at 40ft. At that length you can easily handle a sloop or cutter. You'll get a cockpit you can actually find comfortable, but not with a mizzen in the middle of it. You just really won't find any builder making such an animal these days. Hard dodgers are not that hard to get. I have one that was actually a standard feature. I've seen a sistership with a hard bimini / connector and a sunroof. Those are not a problem.

In looking for something similar in terms of the functions you want we found a Gozzard 36 fit well and was priced right. The new 37 might be more along what you want as it does not add the aft stateroom like the 41. The 37 design is very unlike a traditional 40 ft boat but is actually bigger than most since the bowsprit is not included in the length. It is possible to get a boat under 40 ft that actually is bigger than a normal 40 ft boat.

[gosstyla]

Efraim, didn't see a question in your original post but I will comment on your statements.

I agree with you completely - if you place a high enough value on personal wants/requirements.

I signed the contract for my boat 4/2004 it was suppose to launch 9/2005. It finally launched 7/2006. I've been living on the boat, at the builders, since 9/2006. The builder is in Valdivia, Chile lat. 40S.

I have had problem after problem after problem. However, I would do it all over again because it still seems the most reasonable way to meet my objective.

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by Efraim

Although the absolute max is 40ft, we only want room to sleep 2, with the occational short term guest, the old "entertain 8, dine 6 and sleep 2" type of thing, we don't want or need lots of bunks, we want storage. We would also like the sleeping area amidship. We also have our own ideas about the layout of the head as well, the admiral it pretty small, and a head where one can't brace oneself in a rough sea while healed over has proven to be somewhat useless. ( I being polite ).
This brings up the point of over all ergonomics, we figure that since this is going to cost big bucks one way or the other why not have exactally want one wants.

All of the above are easily fixed, especialy the red one, buy a......, nah not going there...................note to self,pick up lump of wood, hit repeatedly in head.

Dave

[cchesley]

I started down the custom road myself a couple years back. It was fun, the design process was over a year long and we still hadn't gone to construction drawings, builder selection, etc, etc.

A certain production builder was introducing something that met the Admiral's specs, if not mine completely. So we toured and sailed it at one of the big fall shows. I started hearing comments from the builder like, "the next one we'll run that line differently", "We can save another 2000# on subsequent hulls", "We've found a different way to do thus and so".

My brain started running... My boat will be hull #1 too. Everything I've just spent $50-$75/hr having built, but that needs changing, I'll spend the same amounts to 'undo' and then 'redo'.

The other thing I discovered was that I was imposing too many things on the designer that I was adamant about, for one reason or another, and in the end I was detracting from the final result.

To make a long story short... I ordered hull #10 of the aforementioned design and immediately went home and cancelled the custom project. The production boat was an infinitely better boat than what I was going to come up with on a custom basis. Better resale, less heartache/hassle and a wiser choice. Of course, I still miss those custom swiveling/reclining chairs I wanted and maayybe, the custom one would have turned my head just a bit more in aesthetics but in the end I wouldn't have been living aboard like I am now. Who'd a thunk?