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Old 02-02-2013, 08:38   #16
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Re: New Boat or Slightly Used (better) Boat?

I am a one boat owner, and I do not live aboard. However, I sail a 2002 Hunter that I bought used in 2008. I average 39 days a year away from my slip. The used boat that I bought was in almost new condition, even though it was 6 years old. All that it really needed for coastal cruising was bottom paint. I have added a bunch of toys to it in the last 5 years, but that is really what they are, the boat still does what it was supposed to do, and I have learned about the stuff that I want in my next boat, and the things that I don't want.
I have talked to a few boaters who bought new, in most cases they have had more problems in the first few years than I did with my used boat.

I am looking for a new boat, and I have considered the advantages of new vs used, I believe that I will be buying used, as when I look at new boats, there are so many things that I consider mandatory, and that are on the used boat, but are extra expenses on the new boat. For example I have looked at the "New" 2009 IP460 2009 Island Packet 460 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
that has basically only been used for boat shows, and compared it to a used 2009 IP 460
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...g_id=1021&url=
Here is an example of what you can find in a new vs used boat, if you discount the engine hours on the "new" one as yours will truly have 0 hours on it. Then you can see the difference as to what you are looking at.

In the case of the used boat (that is listed at an extra $30,000) you get 50 engine hours, a folding prop, instruments (including radar), anchor and bow roller for two, electric windlass, fully enclosed cockpit (vs bimini and dodger) etc.

So, in this case you would have to consider, if I buy the "new" boat and invest $30,000 can I get a better setup? for that matter, can I even match the used boat?

I admit that this is a strange case, in that the "new" boat is really a used one that has just been a demo, but it does illustrate the difference between new and used.
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Old 02-02-2013, 13:03   #17
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Re: New Boat or Slightly Used (better) Boat?

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(...) I've seen some gorgeous bluewater boats built in the mid-80's in our price range. I had never checked out Najad until I ran across the 405 last night but I know they are great boats. And it's only 6 years old. But only one head... (...)

With our plans and other factors, which would be the better choice, new or slightly used, better quality?
Julie,

I think you will find this most difficult to get any closer to your answers from others' opinions. After all is done and said, it is entirely up to YOUR personal preferences, and these will not be altered by whatever other people have to share.

My personal choice is always for quality rather than age. And it is also against financing. So to say, if I were to face your decisions and indecisions, I would go for an older, quality boat. And I say this from onboard a boat built back in 1980 (30 y.o. now). And why I say this is because I work on boats - many of them are modern age pop-outs, and some are modern 'quality' boats - and they all share one common feature - complete disregard by the builder of how and where and how many systems there are in the boat.

One toilet only? Well, if it works, it is much better than three non-working ones.

And be careful with things like Najad - they did become very 'modern' many years ago - one built back in 1980 may e.g. be already sandwich balsa cored hull - google balsa cored sandwich hull and read on the possible pros and cons.

And so it rolls. I wish you finding the dream boat soon and sailing your dream soonest.

Cheers,
b.
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Old 02-02-2013, 14:01   #18
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Re: New Boat or Slightly Used (better) Boat?

Buying a brand new boat I feel is about emotion!

Buying a used boat is about value! But I would get the newest used boat that has had the fewest owners as possible!

I got my current boat when it was 10 years old and after only 1 owner. After 2 years I haven't anything on it that the last owner "did wrong" so don't assume that you are better at things than a previous owner!

PS - I will say that if you are not a dog owner and the previous owner is you will get a little annoyed cleaning hair out of places for a while.
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Old 02-02-2013, 14:20   #19
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Re: New Boat or Slightly Used (better) Boat?

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Ann, in a perfect world I would say you were right but this family has a history of "head-hogging". I'm Ms. Metamucil and I'm in and out. But my SO likes reading War & Peace, or at least it seems so.

I could state it more graphically but...

The same goes with showers. The real problem is one of us has never had any experience living aboard. I think it's in my blood. My first time on a sailboat was in 1970. I took to boats like a monkey takes to a tree. And when I later had an full month of living aboard, I was home.

Relationships filled with love and respect are wonderful but there are always kinks to be ironed out. And this kink has to do with heads.
Hi Julie,

I'll pop back in my box pretty quick, 'cause I really do believe you know your situation better than I possibly can.

It seems like you're the prime mover in this enterprise, probably 'cause you did take to boating like a "monkey to a tree". Have you discussed the head issue with your SO with specific relevance to living aboard a boat? Has he "tried out" a few for "fit?" Jim, my SO, had a friend whose wife, a big, tall woman, actually got stuck in the head when she sat on the toilet when they were looking at small boats to buy. They didn't buy it, and it was a mortifying experience for her.

Boats are generally small spaces, and I don't think two heads will solve the potential odor problem, unless extremely well ventilated. Look for opening ports in the head to allow fresh air in, and consider some sort of "eyebrow" or dodger to keep rain out, as well. And lots of dorades, big opening hatches, etc. One time we were aboard a (one head) French-owned boat that often had guests aboard, and they had a little sign posted there where one would see it, essentially saying that because of the possibility of *odors*, to use the facility quickly, and flush thoroughly, thank you.

The tendency for multiple heads in sailboats I think came out of the charter industry. I've seen many two-heads vessels where the 2nd head has been turned into storage. On our boat, the space occupied by the pantry and hanging locker aft could have had a 2nd head, and for us, it has been an excellent use of the space. ...and still, your SO may not want to change. Nobody likes changing for somebody else, anyway. Changing one's own behavior to please one's partner comes from a special generosity of spirit, if it's a power struggle, then both lose.

Good luck with it all,

Ann
s/v Insatiable II, on the hard in Hobart
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Old 02-02-2013, 14:30   #20
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Re: New Boat or Slightly Used (better) Boat?

Did you know that most Feluccas that sail Egypt's Nile river, do not have any heads, running water, lights or galleys at all? (I'm not going to explain what happens when...) Be thankful with what you've got! Mauritz
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Old 02-02-2013, 16:15   #21
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Re: New Boat or Slightly Used (better) Boat?

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I have never been able to beat the new car smell
Yep, it's so fabulous that it's worth every penny of the 20% depreciation in the value of the car as soon as you drive it off the dealer's lot.

It's the same with boats.
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Old 02-02-2013, 18:19   #22
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Re: New Boat or Slightly Used (better) Boat?

There is no doubt that new cost more than used. If you're going to sail for a year or two you'll usually take a hit from buying new. Not always, as I sold my first new boat, a CS30, three years after I bought it for what I paid for her. It helped that it was the first used CS30 on the market and it was in the early eighties, when boat prices went up and up every year and manufacturers were selling all they could make. It'll be a long time before we see a boat market like that again. If you intend to keep the boat at least ten years, I think a new one might be the way to go. I bought my latest new boat eight years ago and it seems like yesterday. Time does fly when you're enjoying sailing. But from what I've seen lately, not too many cruise for more than a year or three. My second new boat (CS36M) which is now 24 years old held her price (inflation not factored in) for sixteen years. Then the market changed and now they're going for about 50% of what I paid for her.
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Old 02-02-2013, 18:22   #23
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Re: New Boat or Slightly Used (better) Boat?

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Yep, it's so fabulous that it's worth every penny of the 20% depreciation in the value of the car as soon as you drive it off the dealer's lot.

It's the same with boats.
The secret is not to sell it as soon as you drive it off the lot. Hang on to it and enjoy. Depreciation has a way of evening out after some time.
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Old 02-02-2013, 19:01   #24
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Re: New Boat or Slightly Used (better) Boat?

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I have never been able to beat the new car smell

You can get it in a can for $1.50 that wll last months!
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Old 02-02-2013, 19:37   #25
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Re: New Boat or Slightly Used (better) Boat?

Give everyone a bucket each.
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Old 02-02-2013, 20:47   #26
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Re: New Boat or Slightly Used (better) Boat?

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The secret is not to sell it as soon as you drive it off the lot. Hang on to it and enjoy. Depreciation has a way of evening out after some time.
Wise words. The shorter the term of ownership, the more it makes economic sense to own a "pre-depreciated" boat. The longer the term of ownership, the more it makes sense to purchase a new boat.
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Old 02-02-2013, 23:08   #27
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Re: New Boat or Slightly Used (better) Boat?

Why not go for a new Catalina 445?

Slightly used they are going to be very little less (some owners ask more than new price), you'd be getting every part new, Catalina service looks good from the other side of the world and (reading new boats for for sale ads between the lines) it looks like dealers might make you an offer you couldn't refuse.

I've heard that Catalina will let you look at the boat as it's being built. Do get a layup certificate if it's not in the builder's certificate.

For cruising I'd like the wing keel option (5'0") and I'd start with a dodger and bimini.

See if you can get an upgraded bow roller to fit an oversized Manson Supreme or other new generation anchor.

Looks like the perfect cruising boat from here.
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Old 03-02-2013, 07:30   #28
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Re: New Boat or Slightly Used (better) Boat?

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SNIP

PS - I will say that if you are not a dog owner and the previous owner is you will get a little annoyed cleaning hair out of places for a while.
Same goes for cats and other animals that shed hair. Maybe birds as well.

On the other hand this is what I would put in the not a big deal folder. The PO of my boat had a dog. Even after they did a great job of cleaning the boat before selling it to me I still find a dog hair now and then. A quick sweep or two with a broom solves the problem.

On the other hand the real serious problems like sails, motors, fridges, and the like require much more than a broom to fix.
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Old 04-02-2013, 16:23   #29
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Re: New Boat or Slightly Used (better) Boat?

I've spent enough time on a sailboat that I can pretty much walk any boat from bow to stern, inside and out, and know if we're going to be friends for a few minutes or friends for life. My SO has never even been overnight on a sailboat.

When we stepped aboard the Sabre 456 in Annapolis, I was almost in love. I talked to the sales rep, opened floorboards, checked the engine for ease of access and probably had a lot of people wondering who this nosy woman is. But the storage area was so poorly organized it (and a few other things) gave me bad vibes. And I felt it wasn't a good choice for liveaboard.

We saw the Blue Jacket 40 in Chicago, a boat a lot of people have criticized, but I thought it was a pretty decent boat. But, again, the "fit" just wasn't right. We probably looked at every monohull in Annapolis and Chicago over 35' but none were calling me to sea, at least none we could afford.

If it was just me, I would have sold the house years ago and bought a boat. I almost did. I was single and close to retirement, then love reentered my life.
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