New & Looking for Sailboat Recommendations

[DesertGypsy]

Hello everyone, I have just joined Cruisers Forum today, having picked up the "What is a good cruising Sailboat" thread on Google.

I have the same question, but perhaps have a little more detail.

I have a fairly varied small sail boat experience, mostly on the Chesapeake. I have some more recent larger boat experience In British Columbia on a (gulp power boat) so, I have some familiarity with larger boat systems.

Ultimately, I would like to do some passage making in blue water, say to New Caledonia on my way to New Zealand on my way to Australia. Possibly a trip to the Mediterranean . I know I have a great deal to learn; I was thinking about live aboard coastal crusing and the Caribbean for the first two years of what I expect to be a 5 year odyessy.

I am pretty mechanical and can be a mechanic, carpenter, electrician, rigger, plumber, sailmaker, and more? (sailmaker would require a bunch of learning, but I do have a needle and palm).

So,

My requirements are:

Sloop or Cutter rigged.
$300,000 or less.
Diesel (no atomic 4's - could refit...)
short handed crew
monohull

What I think my desires are:
37-47 ft LOA
Aft Cockpit
Not a Salon Cabin (just my preference)


I was first intriged by an Island Packet 42. Everyone I talked to was complimentary of the quality of the boat, but many made coments about the speed. Also this is a little pricy.

I sailed an Atlantic 47 in Greece for a week last year and came to love the twin steering stations.

I became very interested in Catalina 470. With the fin keel and short mast options, I could use it on the ICW and in the Carrbbean. Price is within limits. Fast sleek and sexy, but I wonder about seaworthiness in true blue water conditions.

At the other end of the spectrum, a Tayana 37 would appear to be a very sturdy sort of boat the could do the type of things I want to do. The price is great, but the lines are not too modern...

A Hunter 40.5???

As you can see, I have a bewildering array of possibilities and lack the experience to make good judgements.

In the near term, I am trying to narrow my field to 4 to 6 candidate boats, so I can begin researching and shopping in earnest.

I would certainly appreciate your thoughts and recommendations.

[Amgine]

Charter things you like.

Where are you now? plan on sailing there. If you don't plan on sailing there, consider buying a yacht to put into charter with a charter company that lets you get time on boats all over the world. It's a lot cheaper and faster than sailing your boat to those locations.

Go smaller than you think you can deal with.

Go with less stuff.

Go slower.

Those three things will get you on the water sooner, and will help you stay there longer, and will give you more pride in your skills since you'll be able to handle the smaller boat with less stress. If you have reasonably unlimited income while cruising then this advice is useless to you, but I don't know anyone out cruising in that situation.

If you are in that situation, I'm cheap crew.

(btw: determine your crew before you determine your boat. They're harder to replace.)

[Pblais]

As you can see, I have a bewildering array of possibilities and lack the experience to make good judgments.

With all possible good judgment you see out on the water many different boats. So that is about the limit of what good judgment can do. Many people coming to different conclusions. As I read through you list I find several things common. You tend to have a few trivial items attached to each boat with some highly general as well. Things you just "like". This needs much more sorting out. The list of things you like are interesting yet not determining.

You have a budget that seems generous but there can be a problem of expectations too. If you set a spending limit you don't get to set a maintenance limit. Cost is a fluid number. Money over time becomes a difficult number that quickly gets subjective.

At 47 ft you may be over your budget for anything really good unless you talk used. The really nice Atlantics are very much over your budget. Would you really want to go to Greece to buy a boat? I could add to the really very nice boats list too.

In the near term, I am trying to narrow my field to 4 to 6 candidate boats, so I can begin researching and shopping in earnest.

I would generally study more boats at a less detailed level and try not to pick by brand name research by what people say about brands or advertisements you read. Sorting boats by brand name is perhaps the worst method. Chevy vs Ford trucks come to mind. It heads you in the direction that there are more types of boats with more differences than there really are. In the end you choose but one boat. You are not looking to buy the whole company. If you want to ascribe a great value on the brand then it begs the question if your father was a great sailor? I can't see how either matters that much. You may in the end reject some brands but only because the boats are poorly made. Your goals can't really handle a poorly made boat.

Getting too detailed in the study of boats will yield very little fruit. Through the general you tend to get to the specifics quicker. Actually looking and being on boats tends to yield more than researching boats unless you want a career in boat research. The numbers quickly converge to complete confusion. Sorting out ratios eventually yields what they really are just numbers of little value in make decisions.

Your list of requirements are very much untelling. A mono hull aft cockpit includes most boats. There are no larger mono hulls with gasoline engines any more. No boat can claim to be shorthanded only a sailor can be short handed. None of them really sail themselves and any boat can have controls led aft and no modern boat has anything else. Quickly many of the requirements are useless to you. Padding the list with more only hides the true requirements.

Your research would be better spent on your requirements but not with the goal of finding the perfect boat but to find the smallest set of requirements that are based on you. The long list becomes a burden since no boat can fill them all. The boat you buy can however fit a short very well made list. Seek the shortest list to cast the widest net and catch the most fish.

Not long a ago we had someone with the similar idea of requirements but he was 6 ft 8 in tall. His choices quickly reduced to only a few boats. You can only buy the boat that is for sale so if you eliminate all the boats you can't buy now it gets even smaller. He got down to two boats at the Annapolis Boat Show and in the end did not buy either and cut a deal on a different new boat that was returned to the factory and was priced better to his sensibilities at the time. In the end his 3 years of boat research had yielded a large file cabinet of details that didn't really get used to get to the part where you buy the boat.

[JB]

Take a look at a Caliber 47 LRC - almost within your price constraints, but otherwise almost a 10 out of 10 for what you are looking for Dulcinea - Caliber 47 LRC for Sale

[freetime]

Look at used boats from

Malö Yachts MALO YACHTS

Najad NAJAD

Hallberg-Rassy, Sweden HALLBERG-RASSY

CR Yachts > Home CR YACHTS

Quality yachts made in Sweden.

[DesertGypsy]

Thank you freetime. I looked at a Malo at the Annapolis boat show in 2005. Beautiful boat. Loved the teak decks.

[DesertGypsy]

Thank you JB. Nice looking boat. Probably a bit pricy. 300 is my absolute upper limit.

[Ex-Calif]

Originally Posted by DesertGypsy

I have a fairly varied small sail boat experience, mostly on the Chesapeake. I have some more recent larger boat experience In British Columbia on a (gulp power boat) so, I have some familiarity with larger boat systems.

<snip>

So,

My requirements are:

Sloop or Cutter rigged.
$300,000 or less.
Diesel (no atomic 4's - could refit...)
short handed crew
monohull

What I think my desires are:
37-47 ft LOA
Aft Cockpit
Not a Salon Cabin (just my preference)

Are you planning single handed? If so I would stay at the smaller end of your LOA...

[Little Otter]

I don't know that much about the different types of monos but I would try to figure out what i was going to need and how much room that would use that should help narrow it down.

[Rollo]

Have you looked at the Hanse? Well suited for shorthanded sailing.

[AnchorageGuy]

I think we need a "What Boat Should I Buy?" section all to itself on the board and no one can post until they have read all the other threads first?

[DesertGypsy]

Thanks Rollo. The Hanse 400 looks like a possibility. A little light perhaps.

For me, shorthanded is two - my wife and myself.

[DesertGypsy]

Chuck,

In think there is alot of merit in a "What Boat Should I Buy?" section. In my case, I found the site, joined, and in 30 min had posted my first thread.

As I prowl around the site, turns out lots of people have similar questions to mine and Cruisers Forum represents an enormous amount of collective wisdom. I have learned a great deal reading replies to others questions...

My list of candidate boats now includes

Tayana
Hylas
Tartan
Sabre
Westsail
Rustler
Tradewind
Passport
Malo
Baltic
Hudson
Ta Shing -- Baba - et al
Halberg Rassey
Endeavor

[DesertGypsy]

Ex-Calif, thanks. Not single handed - just my wife and I.

[Rollo]

I see one of your choices would be the Hylas. I am very familiar with the old 42, 44 & 51. I have sailed many miles on the 42 and found it an excellent sailing boat, especially up wind. The biggest downside is the brihge deck between the aft cockpit and the small mid entry to the cabin which is awkward at sea. Like many of Frers (designer) boat she has a large rudder and is very well balanced. The 44 is also a good sailer but I do not like to cockpit as it lacks back support and is not the most comfortable. Both of these boats have excellent interior layouts and probably the best galley layouts for use at sea. The boats are well built by the Queen Long yard in Taiwan. The 51 is a nice bot but the size is bigger than 2 people would need.