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Old 01-08-2014, 17:40   #31
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Need your advise.

Ukraine is not very interesting for yachties. Its a long way there and not very cruiser friendly. Crimea is the interesting part, mostly Yalta and Balaclava but that is Russian territory and visas are a headache. There is a nice little yacht club in Balaclava but the guy who built it woke up one day and found out it had been transferred to friends of the president. Odessa is a pretty city but I don't know of any marina and its not safe anywhere to anchor out. Or to put it another way, not many Russians have their megayachts in the Black Sea. There is a reason why.
Best way to decide what kind of sailboat you want is to buy 20 of them and try them all out. That is how I decided Or go sailing on other's boats.


Sent from an undisclosed location on the high seas or from the lounge chair by the pool, you decide.
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Old 01-08-2014, 22:19   #32
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Re: Need your advise.

Thanks for the feedback. Have you been to the Black Sea? My thoughts about that part of the world I would say are mostly stimulated by childhood stories and the Kozaks, and their ventures to Instambul.
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Old 02-08-2014, 00:54   #33
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Re: Need your advise.

Pzappo:

There's a book, "The Voyage of Jack de Crow" by a chap called ? MacKinnon, which details the voyage of said boat from England to France, and through the canals, exiting into the Black Sea.

You might find it an interesting read, and perhaps you'd like to go through the canals as a motor boat? Might be an interesting trip, great historical stops along the way. Not at all the sailing yacht fantasy, I admit, but it would give you a lot of time to consider what you're about and why.

Ann
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Old 02-08-2014, 06:27   #34
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Re: Need your advise.

I think there's been quite a lot of pretty good advice given here. As Atoll suggested, since you seem to be free to travel, why not spend a year or so doing as many deliveries on different kinds of boats as you can? You can discuss the pro's and con's of each boat with skipper and crew as you experience them. After a year of doing that, you'll have learned a whole lot and will have formed a very good idea of what sort of boat best suits you and as you spend time hanging around the waterfront at common delivery destinations, you may well hear about a bargain price on a great boat.

You've mentioned a ketch rig. I really like the way they look and it's a handy place to put your radar, etc. but it adds complication and expense to the rig and to maintenance costs, and doesn't really gain you much unless you will be sailing a lot in light winds and need a short rig to pass under bridges. But in sloops around 40' in length, there's no need to go above 64' anyway so that's not an issue. Going to weather, it's just extra drag. Off the wind it adds useful sail area but so does a bigger mainsail. If the wind is blowing hard, you don't need extra sail area, and in light air it's not a problem and is sometimes a good thing to have your extra sail area up high. I think a cutter or solent rig is best. Yes, in strong winds you can sail "jib and jigger" but a very deep reef in your main will accomplish the same thing and closer to the center of your boat. If you find a boat that otherwise suits you and it happens to be a ketch, then don't rule it out, just realize that most of the time it's going to be sailed as a sloop with some extra drag on the back. If you buy a ketch, take lots of pictures and post them here, because I love the way a ketch looks under sail. Of course you'll never see it under sail because you'll be aboard!

I'd stay away from steel. Steel boats without rust problems are very rare and there's a lot of extra time and cost involved to keep them that way. You mention that you'd like a fairly fast boat so that also rules out most steel boats in the 40' range. Aluminum might be a good option if your budget allows. There's a good website I've run into that has a good discussion of pros and cons of different type cruising boats including steel versus aluminum versus fiberglass. If you google "attainable adventure cruising" or Morgans Cloud, you can find it. There's a $20 fee per year but I think is well worth it for the independent testing this seasoned cruising couple has done and written about.

There's a reason why a fairly long fin keel and at least some sort of external support/protection for the rudder has become common on cruising boats. A long or moderate fin will help your ability to maneuver in port and it will also give you adequate tracking ability at sea without the drag of a full keel. You did say you don't want a slow boat. More boat are being built lately with spade rudders but I don't think it's a good idea on cruising boats because it makes the rudder too vulnerable to any number of things it might come in contact with. A moderate fin with a skeg hung rudder allows very good maneuverability and does a much better job of protecting and supporting the rudder. If you feel you still need better maneuverability, get a bow thruster.

Slow versus fast: A lightweight boat will sail faster in light winds and accelerate quicker, but it will also pound at sea and be very uncomfortable. It sounds like you want to cover some serious distance and that means offshore work so I wouldn't get anything too light. Even if you buy a lightweight boat, it probably won't stay that way for long as you accumulate "things" as you cruise. Racing isn't a priority for you so the kind of speed you're interested in to cross oceans not too slowly will be determined by your boats hull speed and that is determined by it's waterline length. Long overhangs look pretty, but it's tough to log 200 mile days in a 40' boat with only 32' feet of waterline no matter how hard the wind blows.

You haven't mentioned a budget so it's tough to recommend a boat, but I'd take a look at the Bob Perry designed Nordic 40 or 44's that are for sale. They have the advantages of the tried and true valiants combined with little more modern look and a reverse transom and maybe a little more performance. I had a Nordic 44 and it was a very comfortable boat at sea with good performance. If you're cruising extensively, you're not going to be stepping off a dock onto your boat very often so a little swim platform on the transom about 10" above the waterline to step onto from your dinghy makes it MUCH easier to get on/off your boat than climbing up the side. This is something that can be easily added to any reverse transom boat and increases its liveability on the hook a lot.

Good luck with your search and your cruising future. Get on the water now doing deliveries, and "your" boat will come to you.
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Old 02-08-2014, 12:19   #35
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Re: Need your advise.

Thank you so much Ann for keeping your thoughts coming. I will read the book you recommend. Because one of my "desires" was to travel the cannels in Europe. This would be an ideal trip with my oldest son, his wife and my 2 granddaughters (now 6 & 10) pleasure and education. They are more likely to do that. And I am getting a clearer picture that it is impossible to fit everything into one package.
And JTSAILJT thanks for the overall opinion and mostly your suggestion of crewing on a few deliveries, excellent way to almost immediately get on water and as few others suggested, get some hands on experience.
You all have really helped me keep my focus clear and my intent in reach.
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Old 02-08-2014, 12:38   #36
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Re: Need your advise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pzappo View Post
Thank you so much Ann for keeping your thoughts coming. I will read the book you recommend. Because one of my "desires" was to travel the cannels in Europe. This would be an ideal trip with my oldest son, his wife and my 2 granddaughters (now 6 & 10) pleasure and education. They are more likely to do that. And I am getting a clearer picture that it is impossible to fit everything into one package.
And JTSAILJT thanks for the overall opinion and mostly your suggestion of crewing on a few deliveries, excellent way to almost immediately get on water and as few others suggested, get some hands on experience.
You all have really helped me keep my focus clear and my intent in reach.
here is the link again
Yacht crew agency, yacht crew vacancy, sailing crew from Crewseekers

once you get a bit of experince people will even pay you to go sailing!
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Old 02-08-2014, 13:11   #37
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Re: Need your advise.

The single best book I've ever run across about serious cruising is Beth Leonards "The Voyagers Handbook" buy it. If she doesn't discuss it you probably don't need to know it (Beth is a two time circumnaviator and crossed all five of the great caps - she konws whereof she speaks).

Personally (I'm readying an RTW) I'd prefer a sloop rig, especially if you are only two. Less sails (only two) less lines etc etc etc. Much easier to handle. Don't forget - when you are on a passage, you are effectively single-handing the boat. Your partner is either sleeping (most of the time) or busy doing other things - you must be able to handle the boat alone, and som must your partner.

Fin keel? Well, funny enough almost all modern boats have a fin keel - I do believe that the boat designers know more about his than I do. The same goes for a spade rudder.

Cutter rig? yes- but this requires you furl the genua every time you are going to tack. I have a storm jib I run up the spinnaker pole halyard if things get really serious.

Definitely get a wind vane - it is an extra crewman who never gets tired, never wants to go below.

Watermaker? your decision, but I'm installing one. We can conserve and do so, but we still like our comfort. By the way, you don't need a genset to have a watermaker.

Finally - at 68 you need to go. When you buy a boat, buy one that is as ready for what you want to do as you can. Otherwise you'll spend a couple of years installing all kinds of Sh*t and waste your time.

While you are doing all the above - go down to your local sailing club and offer to crew for womeone who races. You'll get invaluable boathandling experience not mention learning how to trim sails.
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Old 02-08-2014, 15:12   #38
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Re: Need your advise.

Pzazz,

Have you considered a peniche? For the canals, I mean. When you take a sailboat to the canals, you have to do a lot of research as to which canals will accommodate the draft of an ocean sailing yacht. Then you have to remove the mast, and either store it somewhere or make provisions for stowing it on deck, and of course, the effective length of the boat has changed, so when you stop at marinas you'll have to take the overhangs into account.

Carstenb has impressed me as a competent sailor. However, I disagree with him about the rudder issue. None of the boats this last year that had rudder failures were skeg-hung. This subject is one that has enthusiastic proponents on both sides, and it is certainly true that many boats with spade rudders have successfully circumnavigated. However, that form of construction does not, cannot support the rudder as well. Beth Leonard, mentioned in his post, and her husband, Evan Starzinger,'s vessel "Hawk" is a Van de Stadt 47 Samoa, and it has a skeg-hung rudder.

People on CF will also tell you sailing performance to windward is not important, often quoting the old saw "gentlemen never sail to windward", but again, if it happens that you must sail to windward, IMO, far better to have a boat that will sail to windward.

I think you will find that boats designed as cutters are able to tack their headsail in most cases without rolling it up (unfortunately this is not true for our Solent rig). Not having swept-back spreaders facilitates reefing while sailing downwind, as well.

Ann
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Old 03-08-2014, 05:13   #39
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Re: Need your advise.

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Originally Posted by carstenb View Post

Cutter rig? yes- but this requires you furl the genua every time you are going to tack. I have a storm jib I run up the spinnaker pole halyard if things get really serious.

.
My boat is rigged as a sloop with a deck fitting for the inner forestay but it's lower end is normally disconnected and stowed alongside and just aft of the mast. This allows easy tacking while coastal cruising, but when heading offshore, where I'm more likely to encounter strong winds and less likely to do much tacking, I use the Hyfield lever to quickly attach and tension the inner forestay and hank on a staysail which is left in its bag on deck until needed. Almost very time I've been offshore and was too lazy to rig the inner forestay I've regretted it as I tried to sail with the jib furled down to 1/4 of it's normal size as it flogs almost uselessly a very long ways from my main. The solent rig is another very good option if you don't want to deal with hanking on the staysail and it's also great for going downwind.

But I like the flexibility of having those two very simple hanked on sails (staysail and storm staysail) in my bag of tricks for when the wind really starts to blow. The really nice thing about that staysail is that it allows you to have good sail shape with a low center of effort in strong winds, whereas a sail on a furler that's tacked to the bow will be higher and will probably need to be furled beyond the point of having good sail shape in very strong winds.
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Old 25-08-2014, 22:07   #40
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Re: Need your advise.

I like the Cherubini model Hunters. late 70's to mid 80's they are built like a brick -----house. The first on was a 27 great for inter coastal sailing but with the shoal keel it was great for shallow water but when the wind and breakers get big it was challenging. If you want to venture out to sea I would choose at least a 30 ft or up with a deep keel. I presently own (3) Hunters, 28.5ft, 31.5ft and a 34.5 ft. They are very well built and give allot of gear as standard. Im on my 4th one and all are easy to sail, roomy, reliable, parts availability is a big plus. My plan was to grow into the 34.5 Hunter it has the deep fin racing keel; and sail the world but I have not gotten out of the bay yet, oh excuse me I did go in the ocean 3 times for short distances. My wife keeps telling me to sell a few of them bc I'm spending too much time playing with my boats. If it makes you happy and keeps you young whey not. But it is time to sell some I want to be on the water and don't need distractions from other girls. ~~~ REMEMBER ITS CONDITON CONDITON CONDITION. BE CAUTIOUS!
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Old 26-08-2014, 07:12   #41
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Re: Need your advise.

Thank you for your advise.
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